Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 09:46:06 -0700 From: Tony Tracy <ttracy-AT-direct.ca> Subject: Re: State Capitalism and Cuba At 08:03 AM 21/06/96 -0400, Louis Proyect wrote: >On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, Tony Tracy wrote: > >> I do not argue that Canada and Cuba are the same in nature. On the other >> hand, in a previous post you pointed to social programs and reforms as >> evidence of Cuba moving towards socialism. I am suggesting that these same >> social programs and reforms are existent in many undisputably imperialist >> and capitalist countries. Therefore social programs do not equal socialism. >> > >Louis: Cuba's "social programs" can not be compared to any other >capitalist Third World nation. If you think they can be, please supply an >example. Social programs in general (healthcare, education, etc.) are something that serious revolutionaries defend. These types of reforms, such as those that exist in Cuba, are good: their existence can aid the working class materially. The absence of such social programs and reforms tend to lead to demoralization and lack of confidence in the working class as a whole. In Cuba, as you pointed out, social programs were fought for. This is not unlike any capitalist country -- in Canada, for example, what social programs (healthcare, education, welfare and unemployment benefits) and reforms that the working class has have also been fought for: through large strikes and mobilizations. For example, the program of unemployment benefits and welfare in Canada come directly from a Communist Party led movement (the "On To Ottawa Trek") that organized men in work camps in the 1930's to build a mass mobilization to fight for unemployment benefits. As revolutionaries, we defend these reforms which were won through struggle. We don't minimize their importance or write them off as strictly "economistic" concerns. However, the existence of reforms and social programs does not indicate socialism. As Marxists, we define socialism differently: as workers' power over the means of production. >Louis: Cuba is moving toward capitalism, not socialism. The "NEP"-like >reforms are undermining socialist property relations and Cuba's future is >very much in doubt. I sense, Louis, that this is a dodge of the question. Please explain what socialist property relations existed in Cuba... that is: did workers have *control* of the means of production? I argue that there is a fundamental difference between *nationalized* property relations and *socialist* property relations. Tony Tracy International Socialists --- from list marxism-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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