Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 08:11:05 +0100
From: hariette-AT-easynet.co.uk (hariette spierings)
Subject: Re: Lenin on "clericalist" nonsense and a Toady!


"This is toadying to the ruling bourgeoisie, which ALL OVER THE
>>WORLD DEVOTES TO THE SUPPORT OF RELIGION HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF RUBLES FROM
>>THE PROFITS SQUEEZED FROM THE WORKING PEOPLE".  V.I. Lenin
>>


>>From Carl in Chicago: 
>
>Once again, Adolpho et. al. give us a wonderful example of dogmatist
>phrasemongering as their method of argument.  The issue at hand is how
>the left should view the emergence of a sector of religious people, clergy
>and laity, in the immediate struggles of the workers in their communities
>in the U.S. in 1996.  


Lenin WAS NOT REFERRING TO "the Russian Chuch" - but to "clericalism" in
general!

Who is being dishonest here?  The "clericalist marxists" such as Carl who -
typiccally - resort to a:".......quest of fashionable reactionary
philosophical doctrines, captivated by the tinsel of the so-called last word
in European (or US) science, and (is) unable to discern beneath this tinsel
some variety of servility to the bourgeoisie, to bourgeois prejudice and
bourgeois reaction".

Is this not a confirmation that Carl is trying to sell us another of those
"..... fashionable philosophical trends......" and that he needs to "......
gain an idea of the connection between the class interests and the class
position of the bourgeoisie and its support of ALL FORMS OF RELIGION on the
one hand, and the IDEOLOGICAL CONTENT of the fashionable philosophical
trends on the other"?.

And does not Lenin's analysis stand today most clearly?:

"......(such "fashionable thinkers like Carl").... not only ...(refrain)....
>from combating the SUPERSTITIONS AND DECEPTION WHICH ARE THE WEAPONS OF THE
CHURCH AS A POLITICAL ORGANISATION, not only ... (evade)..... these
questions, but ...(make).... the simply ridiculous and most reactionary
claim ..." that, the Churchly vermin, in going to the working class are in
fact going there with the intention to help the working class to hang the
"last king with a rope made of the guts of the last Pope"?

About Einstein.  The question that Lenin referred to was to the hanging of
reactionary doctrines from the "coat-tails" of Einstein theories.  In no way
was Lenin assaulting Einstein or science itself.  We can see today how in
the "coat-tails" of fashionable theories (the fractors theory - for an
eample) the most reactionary and idealist nonsense is being peddled by the
bourgeois vulgarisers.

Finally, what are these famous concrete conditions of yours, Mr. Carl, that
would have made of the Church (and I mean here all kinds of Churches)
something different than A SUPERSTITIOUS AND DECEPTIVE REACTIONARY POLITICAL
ORGANISATION, eactly as it was in Lenin's day and for thousands of years
before.  A DECEPTIVE AND REACTIONARY POLITICAL ORGANISATION which is, as it
has always been, a mainstay and pillar of ".......the ruling bourgeoisie (or
any other ruling class in history), which ALL OVER THE WORLD DEVOTES TO THE
SUPPORT OF RELIGION HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF RUBLES (DOLLARS, POUNDS, MARKS,
FRANKS, SHEKELS, YENS, ETC) FROM THE PROFITS SQUEEZED FROM THE WORKING PEOPLE"?.


Adolfo  



     --- from list marxism-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---