Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 17:39:21 -0600
From: Lisa Rogers <LROGERS-AT-deq.state.ut.us>
Subject: since Rolf asked me ...


You're right Rolf, I should give credit for your partial response to
my comments and questions on nuclear power and petro-fuels.  I've had
my patience tried by your voluminous postings which did not answer my
questions, which could have been addressed directly in just a few
lines.  And I'm glad you switched from "carbohydrate" to
"hydrocarbon", altho I'm not sure if that reflects any increased
understanding of the chemical difference and such.  That's part of my
beef with you, that you go on about these things without apparently
understanding the chemistry involved or implied by your position.

As to expulsions, it was only in Hans' recent post that I had ever
heard him seriously entertain even the _thought_ of expulsions!

Actually, I'm glad to hear that he might consider it, since I think
that sometimes it would greatly improve the quality of a discussion
list.  I support the existence of moderated lists and unmoderated
lists, under some conditions.  I also support the idea of moderation
that does not consist only of expulsions.  I'd prefer to talk with
people who do not require rules, but maybe it would help some kinds
of discussion with some people to limit number of posts per day, etc.

But no, Hans never "attempted" to expel anyone!  What do you think
that such an "attempt" would look like?  Hans and all other
moderators and spoon all have the technical knowledge to unsubscribe
you at any time.  The technical setup can easily be set to not allow
posts except from members, and to not allow members unless
specifically approved by one with the technical key to do so.

So, if Hans wanted to, he could have just zapped anyone, long ago. 
It would not be "attempted", it would be already done.  But no, he
didn't do that.

This is another example of some people getting all upset, perhaps
because they don't know how lists actually work.  Many of you are
projecting some notions of party organization or bourgeois democracy
or capitalist commodity production or something, onto list-running by
volunteers, and none of those models fit.

I'm also not aware of any plans of Hans to run a moderated list, to
have an expulsion policy or to expel anyone in particular.  Frankly,
I don't expect that I know all his plans, either.

Please notice that Hans said something like "if I _had_ expelled
anyone, it would have been ..."  I know that's a rather incendiary
remark to you and to Malecki, but I don't think it amounts to an
"attempt" or a "plan" to expel.  That's a big "if", since nobody even
has been expelled from m1.  I won't be involved in running any new
unmoderated list, so I shouldn't say much, but my impression is that
it is not likely to expel anybody either.  

The lesson that I think can be taken from this is something about the
way that some other people respond to your approach, i.e. not very
favorably.  If you don't feel the need to change anything, then you
won't, but if you care about how you are received and care if others
are listening, then perhaps you may want to look for something to
gain for yourself from these happenings.

Of course, nobody can please everybody, and some will probably take
time to blast me for this post.  Yet I offer it in a comradely
spirit, as a direct answer to your questions, Rolf.

lisa


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