Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 09:37:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Lisa R, Hugh - and a clarification by Engels


Hugh Rodwell wrote:
 
> As for the cross-posting, what are we supposed to do when a point is
> relevant to both forums, especially given the *unprincipled basis* of the
> division as far as content/theme is concerned? If M2 has sartorial
> requirements, <more nonsense follows, JL>

(1) Cross-posting allows neither side to understand what is going on 
since it is, by its very nature, highly selective. In any event, I don't 
care to know what is going on there. Do you think that that those on 1 
would appreciate long daily messages from 2 cc'd to the crypt? If so, I 
can make arrangements.

(2) *WE ARE NOT A REVOLUTIONARY PARTY!* 

    *WE ARE NOT THE FIFTH INTERNATIONAL!*

    Discussion of "unprincipled" splits is, consequently, both misleading 
and amusing in the extreme. Capitalization was necessary above since some 
just DON'T GET IT.

(3) Who said that we were to be a theory-only l'st?

(4) "Sartorial requirements", evidently, is intended to be a swipe at 
those who allegedly only want to discuss theory. Since that is a 
misrepresentation, more misrepresentations by Hugh follow.

> I'd like to round this off with a statement by Engels <snip>
>         IN NO WAY DID WE HAVE ANY INTENTION OF PUTTING OUR NEW
>         SCIENTIFIC RESULTS INTO THICK BOOKS TO BE WHISPERED
>         EXCLUSIVELY INTO THE EARS OF THE 'LEARNED' WORLD. QUITE THE
>         OPPOSITE. WE WERE BOTH ALREADY DEEPLY INVOLVED IN THE
>         POLITICAL MOVEMENT, ENJOYED A CERTAIN FOLLOWING IN  EDUCATED
>         CIRCLES, NAMELY IN WESTERN GERMANY, AND HAD RICH CONTACTS
>         WITH THE ORGANIZED PROLETARIAT. IT WAS OUR DUTY TO GIVE OUR
>         VIEWS A SCIENTIFIC FOUNDATION. BUT IT WAS EQUALLY IMPORTANT
>         FOR US TO WIN THE EUROPEAN, AND FIRST OF ALL THE GERMAN
>         PROLETARIAT, TO OUR CONVICTIONS, TOO. AS SOON AS WE HAD
>         CLEARED THINGS UP FOR OURSELVES, WE GOT STUCK INTO OUR TASK.

(1) Note that Engels, in that part of his quote not excerpted above, 
attempted to provide a historical context for his beliefs. Hugh has not 
done the same, but has repeated the oldest and most sterile of tactics by 
Marxists -- uncritically quoting from authority.

(2) Whoever told you that marxism1 or marxism2 was designed to be 
marxist l'sts, mislead you. We are not Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, etc. 
We are *simply* a Net mailing list which discusses issues related to 
marxism -- that is *all*.

(3) BTW, do "revolutionary" organizations make available publicly all of 
their discussions? If so, perhaps you can publish the minutes for last 
week's branch/local meeting on *marxism1*. I'm sure they would find the 
experience enlivening. Should anything that is ever written by those 
interested in marxism be published and forwarded to all regardless of its 
content or who the works are being sent to?

(4) Let's get on with discussing issues related to the theory and praxis 
of marxism and stop talking about all of this nonsense.

(5) Note that I did *not* cc this to the grave. If others persist in 
cross-posting, then I will simply ignore their future messages regardless 
of subject or content.

Jerry 




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