File spoon-archives/marxism2.archive/marxism2_1996/96-04-30.191, message 9


Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 20:25:21 +0200
From: Luciano Dondero <DOND001-AT-IT.net>
Subject: This computer kills fascists: 12 (fwd)


>Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 10:32:15 -0400
>To: marxchat-AT-stud.unit.no
>From: tallpaul-AT-pipeline.com (tallpaul)
> 
>                        CYBERNAZIS TARGET MARXIST NEWSGROUP 
> 
>Per I. Mathisen, the proposer for the USENET group 
>"soc.politics.marxism" asked me to write on the new attack on the 
>group by the cybernazis. A post intercepted from Milton Kleim 
>(the proposer of "rec.music.white-power" and leader of the Aryan 
>Internet Corps) to the nazi STORMFRONT mailing list shows the new 
>cybernazi attack and directly links it to Marxist opposition to 
>Kleim's attempt to get a group devoted to the whip-up-the-lynch- 
>mobs skinhead music established on the internet. A copy of 
>Kleim's post to STORMFRONT is included below, just above the 
>formal CALL FOR VOTES (CFV) of the Marxism group. 
> 
>Let me explain a bit of the history of the dispute on the 
>internet, and why your vote in favor of "soc.politics.marxism" is 
>necessary to defeat the new cybernazi effort. 
> 
>At present, the cybernazis have some six groups in the USENET 
>"alt" hierarchy. But other intercepted cybernazi documents showed 
>they wanted to get established in the more respected and more 
>widely carried "rec" hierarchy. To do this, they proposed that 
>the "rec.music.white-power" group be established. 
> 
>Anarchist, socialist, and anti-hate net citizens opposed the 
>cybernazi skinhead group and called for people to VOTE NO. Per 
>and his friends played a major role in this campaign. 
> 
>The cybernazis immediately claimed to represent nothing more than 
>an absolute belief in "freedom of speech" and maintained that 
>USENET rules stated that people should not oppose any news group 
>on political grounds. Numbers of overwhelming white, male, 
>economically privileged, conservative libertarians joined this 
>so-called free speech effort. They proclaimed they had "nothing 
>to do" with the nazis but urged people to vote for the nazi group 
>in order to "oppose censorship." 
> 
>Nobody was censored, nor were the nazis prevented from posting a 
>single article. (In my personal view this was an unfortunate 
>truth, but that is the way that the internet functions.) All of 
>the nazi messages could easily have been posted to the other six 
>nazi-oriented groups in the "alt" hierarchy. Even internet-savy 
>members of groups as politically divergent as the various 
>Trotskyist organizations to the Anti-Defamation League did not 
>call for the nazis to be kicked out of cyberspace or formally 
>deprived of their right to post messages in the "alt" news 
>groups. 
> 
>The campaign for people to VOTE NO on rec.music.white-power swept 
>the globe with people in numerous countries joining the 
>discussion in an effort even Milton Kleim called "UNPRECEDENTED 
>in internet history." This was probably the most accurate 
>sentence Kleim ever posted to the net. 
> 
>But now of course there is a different group to be voted on: 
>soc.politics.marxism. 
> 
>Now, "suddenly" Kleim and the cybernazis have put the issue of 
>absolute freedom of speech behind them, rediscovered Jew- 
>Bolshevism, and forgotten the "A.C.L.U." Of course, for those 
>familiar with nazis history this is neither new nor surprising. 
>But the STORMFRONT list to which Kleim posted his message has 
>upwards of 400 names on it. If the subscribers to the list all 
>support Kleim, then this is a 400-vote bloc that will oppose Per 
>and soc.politics.marxism to punish the group's antifascist 
>efforts. In order for a USENET group to get established, it must 
>win 2/3 of the votes cast where all internet users get a vote. 
>This also means that soc.politics.marxism needs another 800 votes 
>just to comfortably offset the possible STORMFRONT bloc vote. 
> 
>And workers revolution will likely return to Russia before the 
>libertarians who supported white-power music also vote "YES" on a 
>Marxism group. 
> 
>The official CFV on "soc.politics.marxism" is included below. It 
>tells you how to vote on the group and what exactly the group is 
>about. 
> 
>                                  What You Can Do 
> 
>First you can vote in favor of soc.politics.marxism. 
> 
>Many of you will of course do this anyway. Others will now want 
>to support soc.politics.marxism as a *real* free speech issue, 
>especially since it is targeted by the cybernazis in revenge for 
>the principled antifascism by Per. 
> 
>But YES votes from the few people who read this series are not 
>sufficient to raise an additional 800 votes. To do this we all 
>need to get out the word of what is happening. This can be done 
>if you will inform friends of what is happening. Please feel free 
>to post this notice to discussion lists you are on *if 
>appropriate* to the list. Also, feel free to modify this in any 
>way you wish if you think you can do a better job than I of 
>explaining the issues. (Just kill my name as the author if you do 
>so.) 
> 
>*Do not* however modify the CFV in any way. Such things are 
>considered "vote fraud" by the USENET vote takers and may 
>invalidate the vote. 
> 
>[BEGIN KLEIM INTERCEPT TO STORMFRONT] 
> 
>|From: bb748-AT-freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim) 
>|To: stormfront-l-AT-stormfront.org 
>|Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 17:02:16 -0400 
>|Subject: SF: soc.politics.marxism 
>| 
>|Dear Comrades: 
>| 
>|The Bolsheviks have posted a Call for Votes for their proposed 
>|news group, soc.culture.marxism. 
>| 
>|As some of you are aware, the "soc" hierarchy is not intended 
>|for purely political discussions.  It is for social issues. 
>| 
>|The Bolsheviks were in the forefront of opposing our news group, 
>|rec.music.white-power, not only on the ground of "racism," but 
>|also on the pretext that it didn't belong in the "rec" hierarchy 
>|because it allegedly would |deal with politics instead of music. 
>| 
>|Well, it's time to pay the Commies back. 
>| 
>|I urge you to vote NO on soc.politics.marxism.  Please fill out 
>|this ballot, and send it to the vote taker.  Thanks! 
>| 
>|-- Milton 
>| 
>|-- 
> 
>[END KLEIM INTERCEPT] 
> 
>[BEGIN CALL FOR VOTE, SOC.POLITICS.MARXISM] 
> 
> 
>                     FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2) 
>                 moderated group soc.politics.marxism 
> 
>Newsgroups line: 
>soc.politics.marxism    Karl Marx and his legacy in theory and 
>practice. (Moderated) 
> 
>Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 29 Apr 1996. 
> 
>This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions 
>about the proposal should be directed to the proponent. 
> 
>Proponent: Per I Mathisen <perim-AT-interlink.no> 
>Votetaker: Brennan Price <gt0670e-AT-prism.gatech.edu> 
> 
> 
>OFFICIAL SOURCES OF THE CFV 
> 
>The only official sources for copies of this CFV are the UseNet 
>newsgroups to which it is posted including 
>news.announce.newgroups and the votetaker.  An official copy will 
>also be sent to the Marxism mail list after it is posted in 
>news.announce.newgroups.  Contact 
>majordomo-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu if you want information 
>about the list. 
> 
> 
>RATIONALE: soc.politics.marxism 
> 
>There is currently no newsgroup dedicated to the discussion of 
>Marxist philosophy and politics. Such debate has long taken place 
>in the "Marxism" mailing list and occasionally on the newsgroup 
>alt.politics.socialism.trotsky. The "Marxism" list has currently 
>well over 300 subscribers and carries about 30-50 posts a day. 
>The above-mentioned newsgroup carries about 10-20 posts a day and 
>is no place for serious discussion since it is haunted by 
>irrelevant crossposts, off-topic conversations and extensive 
>flaming. Neither are moderated. 
> 
>The reason the "Marxism" mailing list is insufficient is because 
>many feel 30-40, often quite long, mails dropping into one's 
>mailbox is too much, and would prefer the quicker alternative of 
>browsing a newsgroup. A newsgroup is also more accessible for 
>newcomers. 
> 
>The soc.politics.* hierarchy was chosen because it fits well with 
>our intention of a newsgroup for discussion about marxism as 
>political, sociological and historical theory and as a means of 
>changing the world. 
> 
> 
>CHARTER: soc.politics.marxism 
> 
>This group is intended as a moderated forum for the discussion of 
>marxism and political topics in connection to marxism. This 
>includes, but is not restricted to, the political and 
>philosophical theories of Marx, the relevance and appliance of 
>Marx's theories in the modern world and the theories and 
>activities of Marxist political movements and parties both today 
>and in the past. 
> 
>Moderation Policy: 
> 
>The moderators reserve the right to reject any articles submitted 
>to soc.politics.marxism that are insulting, using more than 1/4 
>quotation, off-topic or not at all related to marxism. Crossposts 
>will not be tolerated unless it is an announcement of relevance 
>or importance to the newsgroup. 
> 
>END CHARTER. 
> 
> 
>MODERATOR INFO: soc.politics.marxism 
> 
>Moderator: Per I Mathisen <perim-AT-interlink.no> 
>Contact address: marxism-request-AT-stud.unit.no 
>Submission address: marxism-AT-stud.unit.no 
> 
>The RFD stated that Chris Faatz <cfaatz-AT-teleport.com> would be 
>the moderator for this newsgroup. He decided that this work would 
>be too time-consuming for him, and therefore had to pass the 
>responsibility to somebody else. For the time being, this 
>responsibility has been taken by proponent of the newsgroup. 
> 
>END MODERATOR INFO. 
> 
> 
>HOW TO VOTE 
> 
>Erase everything above the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" line and erase 
>everything below the "END OF BALLOT" line.  Do not erase anything 
>between these lines and do not change the group names.  
>Basically, remove everything except the ballot - we have to save 
>them all on disk. 
> 
>Give your name on the line that asks for it. For each group, 
>place a YES or NO in the brackets next to it to vote for or 
>against it.  If you don't want to vote on a particular group, 
>just leave the space blank.  Don't worry about spacing of the 
>columns or any quote characters (">") that your reply inserts. 
> 
>Then mail the ballot to:    gt0670e-AT-prism.gatech.edu 
>Just replying to this message should work. 
> 
>Quick voting checklist: 
>1) Fill in the ballot form shown below. 
>2) Delete the rest of the CFV from your reply. 
>3) Make sure your reply goes to gt0670e-AT-prism.gatech.edu. 
> 
>========== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line
>========== 
>The only official sources of this ballot are Calls |     FIRST CALL FOR
>VOTES 
>For Votes cross-posted to news.announce.newgroups  |    
>SOC-POLITICS-MARXISM 
>or e-mailed from the votetaker.  Official ballots  |   OFFICIAL USENET
>BALLOT 
>are distributed blank.  Failure to use an official |        
><fhjaoiser-0001> 
>ballot significantly increases the chances that   
>+------------------------- 
>the vote-counting software will be unable to process your vote.  Beware. 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> 
>Give your real name here: 
>If you do not give your real name, your vote will be rejected. 
> 
>[Your Vote]  Group (Don't vote on this line--vote below!) 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>[ yes     ]  this.is.an.example.yes.vote 
>[  no     ]  this.is.an.example.no.vote 
>[abstain  ]  this.is.an.example.abstention 
>[ cancel  ]  this.is.an.example.cancellation 
> 
>[         ]  soc.politics.marxism 
>============= END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line
>============== 
> 
> 
>IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES 
> 
>Anything other than the official ballot may be rejected by the automatic
>vote 
>counting program.  The votetaker will respond to your received ballots with
>
>an automated acknowledgement by e-mail - if you do not receive one within 
>several days, try again.  It's your responsibility to make sure your vote
>is 
>registered correctly. 
> 
>Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account.  Addresses and
>
>votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list. 
> 
>Duplicate votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote. 
> 
>Anonymous votes will not be accepted.  Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI forms
>are 
>considered anonymous votes.  (The vote must be mailed directly from the 
>voter to the votetaker.) 
> 
>In cases where voting fraud is determined to have occurred, it is standard 
>operating procedure to delete ALL votes submitted by the violator. 
> 
>Anyone who distributes pre-filled ballots or modified copies of this CFV 
>commits voting fraud.  While distributing an unmodified CFV is allowed, it 
>is strongly discouraged, as the process of redistribution often adds
>headers 
>to the document that confuse the vote-taking software.  Reference to the 
>official CFV in news.announce.newgroups or to a copy mailed directly from 
>the votetaker is preferred. 
> 
>When in doubt, ask the votetaker. 
> 
>--Brennan T. Price, UVV 
>  Running UseVote 3.0 
> 
>[END CALL FOR VOTE]
>
--Luciano Dondero--



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