File spoon-archives/marxism2.archive/marxism2_1996/96-05-24.181, message 91


Date: Mon, 13 May 96 10:57:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Engels, foragers and "surplus" -Reply



Lisa writes:
>
> Adam, I think that several of the questions you raise are answerable
> only in each specific case, and require material evidence collection
> to be answered.  That is exactly why some anthropologists are
> actually measuring the time it takes to harvest various things,
> calculating return rates, etc.  
> 
> Otherwise, what is the basis for generalities such as you assert?  It
> "could be" not worthwhile to do this or that, but how can we tell? 
> What makes it worthwhile or not?  Compared to what?  Is there any
> need for any ethnographic fieldwork to address any of the issues you
> raise, in your opinion?  I think there is.
> 

Yes, there is a need for such fieldwork.

You have actually provoked me into rereading OFPPS, at least skim reading 
it. There are a number of obvious weaknesses in it ( eg he didn't seem to
be aware that apes were social animals ).

There's also a lot of specific stuff about the different forms of family 
leading up to the "pairing" within an essentially matriarchal context, and
then matriarchy's overthrow by monogamy ( for the female, anyway ).

But, what Engels says is that class society grew up in the old world
out of pre class pastoral societies ( and agriculture as opposed to
horticulture started off as a means to feed these animals in environments
where there was no readily available grass lands throughout the year ).

In other words, he argues that class society did not grow directly out
of forager society at all.

Adam.

Adam Rose
SWP
Manchester
UK


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