File spoon-archives/marxism2.archive/marxism2_1996/96-08-08.172, message 47


Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:03:16 +0100
From: m-14970-AT-mailbox.swipnet.se (Hugh Rodwell)
Subject: Necessary economic institutions for socialism


Newcomer Aussie Greg S writes 25k in answer to Mark A.

Welcome Greg, and please understand you're going to have to write
everything in this posting again several times over if you want us to
absorb anything of it!

However, you write among other things:


>What then is Marxist socialism (here begins the heresy)?  I would suggest
>that at least in terms of the economy in early proletarian socialism is
>nothing more than state capitalism.

This I disagree with heartily. Check out my arguments on the collapse of
Stalinism and the process of restoration in the ex-Soviet Union over on m1
(the thread is headed 'degenerate workers' states' to see why.

But when you write:

>In terms of the political and
>cultural it is of course another world altogether. In other words, many
>of the necessary economic institutions for socialism have already been
>created within fully blown late capitalism. In fact I would go as far as
>to state that we are already living within a form of =93socialism=94 albeit
>in bourgeois corporate form. For instance, even in my country (Australia)
>the only capital (i.e. machinery, raw materials and wages) that remains
>in purely private hands belongs exclusively to the petty bourgeois. The
>bourgeoisie have socialised their ownership of capital through share
>issues to such an extent that while individuals may be extremely wealthy
>they do not in fact now control that capital in any meaningful way (it is
>mediated through boards of directors, financial insitutions and the
>thousands of other devices that the rich mobilise to protect their
>income). The potential for proletarian political power to direct a
>productive and humane economy has never been greater because the economy
>has become highly integrated and thus more socialised.

I would say that this is hardly heresy. It's clearly present in Marx in
important passages in Capital III, at the end of ch 27 'The role of credit
in capitalist production' and five or so pages from the end of ch 36
'Pre-capitalist relationships'. There's been recent discussion of this on
the list (I think it was m1 but can't be sure, it might have been here) and
such different animals as Doug H and myself were quite in agreement as to
the progess of socialization within capitalism.

Not that I think either of us would say that 'many' or even any at all 'of
the necessary economic institutions for socialism' already exist. You're
probably being very abstract about this. But, to start a discussion,
perhaps you could specify some of these necessary institutions?

Cheers,

Hugh




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