Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 20:46:43 +0000
Subject: Re: the state (fwd)



On Thu, 19 Sep 1996, Adam Rose wrote:

> > It is clear that A fundamental cause of violence will cease under communist
> > society (namely: class division and class struggle). But, on the basis of
> > what we can say that won't be OTHER causes apparently not fundamental now,
> > but may be 'fundamental' later?.
> 
> Well, like what ?

In asking this question you have effectively confirmed Pablo's point. We 
can't possibly provide a single answer to _all_ the problems that could 
arise in a socialist future, nor are we in a position to ask what kinds 
of debates will be the 'fundamental' ones in a society without class 
divisions along economic lines. We can only work to overcome the material 
divisions between individuals as we understand them in the current 
context - indeed we have a duty to do so. But to argue that an end to 
oppression along economic lines will bring an end to serious 
'fundamental' conflicts is to demand the erasure of all forms of difference 
between individuals (which is not impossible, just extremely dangerous). We 
can't know in advance what the 'fundamental' questions will be for a 
society we can only grasp in a necessarily vague way.

> As I said before, there will doubtless be very important issues in a
> socialist society where the will of the majority has to be imposed on 
> the minority, if necessary by force.
> 
> But as this socialist society develops, the underlying causes of these
> real, serious divisions will be overcome, and therefore there will be
> increasingly less need for a workers state ie a mechanism to impose
> the will of the majority onto the minority.

You are correct to say that the real, serious divisions which we 
currently hold in view will be overcome by the dismantling of class 
society. In the terms that we currently understand it, this will be 
nothing less than the end of history, and there will be no further need 
of institutional force to ensure that exploitation is unable to reemerge. 
However, the terms in which we currently understand the world are 
incomplete; future societies will have to resolve different problems to 
the ones we are considering here, and they may require a different 
conceptual basis upon which to do so. To understand this statement, one 
would have to imagine a world without capital, without class struggle. 
How will people think in such a world? Will they share our opinions of 
what constitutes a 'real, serious division'? If they _are_ to share our 
opinions, who will enforce them?

bo




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