Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 09:39:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: The state redux



I want to emphasize that ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in my argument for the need
for a state presupposes or implies anything aboyt whether there will or
will not be markets in a postcapitalist world. In fact, if you loo9k at my
examples of nonclass conflicts, I carefully avoided any ones that turned
on the sort of disputes that arise in in a socialist or any other market
economy. I talked about the problems that planners would face.

In addition, I do not deny that a fair distribution is possible. (Although
Marx did, for all you fundamentalists out there: look at the Critique of
the Gotha Program,) What I say is that in order to get a fair distribution
and keep it you need accepted procedures of making decisions and
resolving disputes that produce enforceable results. That's law and the
state. --Justin



On Fri, 20 Sep 1996, Adam Rose wrote:

> 
> The state ie armed bodies of men, is necessary to extract
> a surplus from a working class and keep it in the hands 
> of a ruling class.
> 
> Any other features of any particular state in any particular
> society ( law, religion, weights + measures, a role in production,
> waging war, etc etc ) stem from this fundamental feature. 
> 
> Before there was a surplus, there was no need for a state.
> When there is fairly distributed abundance, there is again
> no need for a state. There is nothing for a state ie armed
> bodies of men, to do.
> 
> Justin is at least consistent. He argues that there can never
> be fairly distributed abundance, and therefore we will always
> need a state. He argues this from two points of view : i) there
> can never be ecologically sustainable abundance; ii) we cannot
> distribute if fairly, therefore we need a market. Naturally,
> I disagree with both of these arguments.
> 
> But what concerns me is that other people, who do seem to believe
> that there can be fairly distributed abundance, also believe that
> armed bodies of men will still be necessary.
> 
> And I again I ask these other people :
> Why ? For what purpose ? And how do you propose we rewrite the marxist
> theory of the state to take these other causes of the existence of armed
> bodies of men into account ?
> 
> Adam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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