Date: Mon, 23 Sep 96 10:37:10 GMT
Subject: Re: the state (fwd)



Pablo,

I AM having difficulty understanding your arguments.

Whether this is because of your English, which is far
superior to my Spanish, or because of what you are saying,
I am not sure. I have difficulty getting a cup of coffee 
in Spanish; I would never attempt to discuss Marxism and
the state, so please don't take this in the wrong way.

By "atomism" do you individualism ie acting in a selfish 
manner rather than in the interests of society as a whole ?

And what do you mean by "opacity" ?
I say "opacity" when I manage to remember "opaqueness"
isn't the correct way of saying "the extent to which I can 
see through it". What do you mean by this in the social
context ? Something like "accountability" ?

In general, you do seem to disagree with aspects of the basic
Marxian arguments on the state. And perhaps underlying this,
it seems to me you do not agree with the Marxist explanation
of the cause of things like rape or petty criminality. And
WHY do you see the continuation of relative scarcity as
inevitable ? Ecological reasons, like Justin, or something
more fundamental ?

Finally, you charge that my Marxian understanding of the state
is somehow akin to Stalinism is actually the complete opposite
of the truth : the Stalinist regimes do not satisify any single
one of the Marxian criteria of a workers state. This Marxian 
understanding of the state is precisely the bedrock of my
tendency's critique of Stalinism as State Capitalism. One of
the greatest distortions of Stalinism was the obscuring of the
revolutionary, Marxian, tradition re: state and revolution.




Justin,

Arguing with you drives me bonkers.
Anyway, it has provoked me into rereading Lenin's State + Revolution,
so I am grateful to you for this at least.

Of course, I shall benefit from this.
But I suspect you would benefit more.

In particular, he disposes of your cheap jibe what Marx said
about the state in the Critique of the Gotha programme : Marx
as you well know, agreed with the anarchists about getting
rid of the state; he disagreed about getting rid of it immediately,
arguing that a workers state was necessary precisely in order to
bring about a classeless and stateless society and that as soon
as it came into existence it would start withering away. 
[ I'm sure you're knew this anyway ].

Adam.



Adam Rose
SWP
Manchester
UK


---------------------------------------------------------------



     --- from list marxism2-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---