Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:46:52 -0800
From: "Evan A. Leeson" <evan-AT-xfind.com>
Subject: RE: ehh? (reply to Walter-LONG)


cool

At 05:26 AM 3/20/98 +0800, you wrote:
>Walter,
>
>You said: 
>
>>I scoff at folks who couch manic-depressive behavior as an "illness."
>>"Bipolar Affective Disorder," "Attention Defecit Disorder," etc., etc --
>>these are terms contrived and propogated by drug companies,
>>psychiatrists, and wimps.  These categorical condemnations help people
>>deny that these symptoms are manifestations of "problems" of the spirit.
>
>Bipolar Disorder is an illness most likely genetic in origin, or so
>indicates the most current genetic studies. The purest example of the
>genetic origins of manic-depression are found amongst the Amish, a fairly
>closely linebred group of humans. There is absolutely no defense for
>claiming that bipolar disorder is anything other than genetic and
>biochemical in nature. Would you claim that epileptics aren't suffering from
>an illness? Then you'd best not assert that bipolars aren't because the PET
>Scan studies, MRI's and drugs are shared between the two illnesses. The
>anticonvulsants Depakote, Tegretol, neuroleptics like Lamotrigine, neurontin
>and antipsychotics like resperdol were first used on epileptics and then
>found to be effective for those with bipolar disorder. Many BPs (me
>included) have seizure behaviours such as blackouts while driving etc.--the
>brain is indeed a complicated entity. A malaise of the spirit may indeed
>aggravate the disorder, but it cannot, will not, is impossible to--cause it.
>
>>As a society, The Western World has all but halted the abominable
>>practice of using labotomies to treat "mental disorders."  Or so we like
>>to think.  What's Prozac but a labotomy-in-a-bottle?  Or lithium?  Or
>>the countless other trendy pacifiers?
>
>If you think that the use of Prozac can in any intelligent way be compared
>to a lobotomy then we have no meeting grounds whatsoever. I would suggest
>you delve into the literature concerning the torturous practice of lobotomy
>and then talk to some people who take antidepressants (ADs) and STILL lead a
>productive happy life. Prozac is one of the SSRI class of ADs. (Selective
>Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors) and has far fewer side-effects than the media
>has led you to believe. These drugs are lifesavers--no two ways about it.
>
>>Sorry.  It's early.  I don't mean to veer off-topic.  I understand
>>you're point, Frac.  Clinically, the evidence suggests N. wasn't
>>schizoid, but severely "manic-depressive."  I don't know.  The point of
>>my original post was that it's far more interesting to look beyond the
>>sterile, clinical perspective and ponder the nature of the spiritual
>>"place" in which he could have been that would have precipitated his
>>"decline."
>
>If you've an interest in the unprecedented numbers of creative geniuses who
>were bipolar, I'd suggest you read a couple of books by Dr. Kaye Redfield
>Jamison- read _Touched By Fire_ and _The Unquiet Mind_. The soul (for lack
>of a better word) of the madman is the progenitor of much brilliance in many
>artistic areas including philosophical thought. It is not something to be
>denied or hidden, but in many ways, to be emulated. And I would ask you
>this: If severe depression, or the psychoses of a manic high aren't /also/
>"spiritual" places then perhaps you have a much more limited view of certain
>mental disorders of a /biochemical/ nature than even you realize. By the
>way, Dr Jamison is a professor at John Hopkins University and wrote the
>medical text for manic depression; she also is a sufferer of this vicious
>illness.
>
>>And don't mistake my previous rantings.  I'm all for behavioral studies.
>>Fascinating stuff.  And brain chemistry is a worthy subject, no doubt.
>>But I encourage people to think for themselves; outside the boxes of
>>academiacs(sic).
>
>Madness does no recognise the boxes you speak of; obviously, neither did
>Nietzsche.
>
>>Does a lithium defficiency cause manic-depressive behavior, or does
>>manic-depressive behavior make the levels of lithium go down?
>
>No Walter, lithium does nothing but build a bridge between brain synapses
>that misfire due to insufficient serotonin, acetycholine, too much calcium,
>and a plethora of other brain chemicals that literally carry those emotions
>and moods you blithely discount. One does not wake up one day and *choose*
>to be bipolar, but one can die by the end of that same day because they are.
>The drugs sometimes prevent that along with the rabid rages and depressions.
>If you've never seen a manic rage you haven't the slightest notion of what
>that phenomenon is like to the person who is enraged or to those who get in
>their way. The drugs stop the rages and depression, or at least make them
>manageable. The police need little thought or justification to lock us away,
>even in this so-called enlightened age,--how much less did they need to
>insure Nietzsche never saw polite society again once his sister had control
>of his person and his estate?
>
>I am manic-depressive and I take lithium and an AD called paroxetine (sister
>SSRI to Prozac) and thyroxine for a thyroid gland messed up by the lithium
>intake. I can hold my own in a Ph.D program and other work, but there is
>always a price to be paid..always. If you'd like to learn more about BP and
>read some BP poetry, why not surf over to my website and learn...then come
>speak to me about lobotomies, spiritual malaise and creativity.
>
>My last 2 cents on this, but I cannot stand untruths...they harm.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Frac
>
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