File spoon-archives/nietzsche.archive/nietzsche_1998/nietzsche.9806, message 43


From: "Jesse bloom" <essej-AT-hotmail.com>
Subject: rude men
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 00:06:30 PDT


TWO questions .

section 3 of Birth of tragedy

(..The Homeric "naivete" can be understood only as the complete citory 
of Apollinian illusion :this is one of those illusions which nature so 
frequently employs to achieve her own ends. The true goal is veiled by a 
phantasm : and while we stretch out our hands for the latter, nature 
attains the former by means of our illusion..)


how did you guys interpret this ? ..i saw the "true goal" that N was 
talking about as the "oneness with nature" and i believe that in 
Apollininan culture 'nature' is personified by the GODs.. therefore when 
one calls for a oneness with nature, one naturally searches for a 
oneness with the gods.. but the difference is that N calls this a 
phantasm, as the Olympians are but the elevated, pefected mirror images 
of man .. on other words there is a oneness not with nature but with 
oneself, according to the principle of indivuation, it is a ONENESS of 
order in oneself NOT with nature .So in actuality the crux of the 
Apollinian impulse is a very nihilistic attitude, despite what N says.i 
believe the Dionysian element exists not because of the required need 
for suffering to be "redemptive" but that the Dionysian element is 
actually a manisfestation of god as self ..as N said the Dionysian 
impulse makes the man "a work of art, instead of the artist." .. strange 
then that there should be distinction in the call for redemptive powers 
in elimnation of "individuation" .. and the call for redemption in the 
elimination of anything outside of the Olympians ..the way i see it ... 
BY OLYMPIANS it is meant 1) mirror   2) source  at the same time , to 
allow for self-contemplation(mirror) and self-realisation while at the 
same time the need and desire for the continuation of life (source). 
self-contemplation endows meaning to the need or desire for existence. 

well the second question is then how does mere appearance aid redemption 
? is not the Apollinian state a pre-requsite of the Dionysian state? 


pardon me if i was unclear about this ... basically i'm just centering 
on sections 3 and 4 of the birth of tragedy as they are the ones i'm 
most perplexed about .


jesse

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