From: "Jesse bloom" <essej-AT-hotmail.com> Subject: rude men Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 00:06:30 PDT TWO questions . section 3 of Birth of tragedy (..The Homeric "naivete" can be understood only as the complete citory of Apollinian illusion :this is one of those illusions which nature so frequently employs to achieve her own ends. The true goal is veiled by a phantasm : and while we stretch out our hands for the latter, nature attains the former by means of our illusion..) how did you guys interpret this ? ..i saw the "true goal" that N was talking about as the "oneness with nature" and i believe that in Apollininan culture 'nature' is personified by the GODs.. therefore when one calls for a oneness with nature, one naturally searches for a oneness with the gods.. but the difference is that N calls this a phantasm, as the Olympians are but the elevated, pefected mirror images of man .. on other words there is a oneness not with nature but with oneself, according to the principle of indivuation, it is a ONENESS of order in oneself NOT with nature .So in actuality the crux of the Apollinian impulse is a very nihilistic attitude, despite what N says.i believe the Dionysian element exists not because of the required need for suffering to be "redemptive" but that the Dionysian element is actually a manisfestation of god as self ..as N said the Dionysian impulse makes the man "a work of art, instead of the artist." .. strange then that there should be distinction in the call for redemptive powers in elimnation of "individuation" .. and the call for redemption in the elimination of anything outside of the Olympians ..the way i see it ... BY OLYMPIANS it is meant 1) mirror 2) source at the same time , to allow for self-contemplation(mirror) and self-realisation while at the same time the need and desire for the continuation of life (source). self-contemplation endows meaning to the need or desire for existence. well the second question is then how does mere appearance aid redemption ? is not the Apollinian state a pre-requsite of the Dionysian state? pardon me if i was unclear about this ... basically i'm just centering on sections 3 and 4 of the birth of tragedy as they are the ones i'm most perplexed about . jesse ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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