Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 13:22:01 -0500
From: Dan Dzenkowski <djdzenko-AT-students.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: 1st section


Hello Jim.

At 10:31 PM 8/7/98 -0700, Jim Barcelona wrote:

>1) What kind of a name is Zarathustra? Does it have anything to do with an
>ancient Middle Eastern religion?
Zoroaster was the Persian prophet of a religion called Zoroastrianism. They
were one of the first religions to set a demarcation line between good and
evil.  They also worship fire.  

Read Ecce Homo Why I am a Destiny #3 Nietzsche will answer this question for
you.

>2) Why is the author telling a story? Doesn't the form of a story deceive
>us? Isn't science (as conceived by the rationalists) moving us away from
>myths=stories and closer to the truth?

It is to create a myth.  A myth has a lasting effect.  The particulars in
the story are not all that important, but the movement and ultimate
realization are.  I tend to look at it like the Iliad. The particulars are
not important, there are a series of things that must happen,then the rest
is just imagination, personal reference, and intrigue.  The story only
deceives us, as long as we confuse the experiences of Nietzsche and
Zarathustra.  Nietzsche was a man, Zarathustra is man.  The book is moving
us closer to the victory, which is not an objective truth, it is a personal
victory.
        Sarah Koffman in Nietzsche and Metaphor, gives a well written
account of science, metaphor, and even has a section on beehives, I can
quote it for you if you want.  I wouldn't suggest buying the book it is not
all that great.  (I can't wait till they translate her books on Ecce Homo
into english)


>3) "Behold, I am weary of my wisdom, like a bee that has gathered too much
>honey; I need hands outstretched to receive it," says Zarathustra (p. 122,
>Viking Portable Nietzsche). Doesn't this and other passages in the 1st
>section contradict traditional notions of wisdom?

Wisdom is an increase in personal health.  You gain wisdom when you choose
correctly. Health versus decadence.  Nietzsche is and was a decadent, but
also had(s) a superabundance of life. Because, even under terrible
circumstances he always chose life.  Ecce Homo Why I am so Wise #1



>Contradictions:
>
>Zarathustra enjoyed his solitude (p. 121), hence his wisdom is a result of
>this joy. The Greek tragedians held that "Wisdom only comes through
>suffering, and only from true suffering, true wisdom." Moreover, in Greek
>the word for suffer is pasxo, which is also the same word for experience.
>How can Zarathustra have gained a joyful wisdom by holing himself up in a
>cave?

He gained joy in his solitude, because he was not threatened by pity, which
is fatal to the higher man.  Sometimes one needs to leave the city in search
of solitude, to take a rest and regain strength.  The case of Russian
Fatalism.  Ecce Homo Why I am so Wise #6  Zarathustra had suffered much, but
he always chose health over decadence, so his suffering was not a burden but
a joy, since it brought him to higher plateaus of health.  I think this is
similar to the Greek ideal.  I didn't know that was the Greek word for
suffering, interesting.

>
>Can wisdom be given? Can I be wise by stretching out my hands to
>Zarathustra? "When a youth was giving himself airs in the Theater and
>saying, 'I am wise, for I have conversed with many wise men,' Epictetus
>replied, 'I too have conversed with many rich men, yet I am not rich.' (_The
>Golden Sayings of Epictetus_, LXV)"

Zarathustra gives you the myth, he does not give you wisdom.  He teaches you
how to go after your own wisdom.  Zarathustra is no crutch.  

>4) Why must Zarathustra go under? What is this going under?

Zarathustra is at the pinnacle of humanity in the beginning of the book.  He
goes under, since he returns to man, as man, and loses his position at the
plateau.  Why does he do this?  'I love man."


>A Question in the Form of an Answer
>
>In certain varieties of ethics, the reward for following *the* value - it
>could be love, the Categorical Imperative, the good for the many - is
>happiness. But Zarathustra says, "You great star, what would your happiness
>be had you not those for whom you shine? (p. 121)"

I am a large fig tree named Zarathustra.  I have started out as a seedling
and grown among weeds.  I sunk my roots deep into the earth crushing rocks.
I grew into the earth and into the sky, my branches reaching towards the
stars, my roots to the bottom of it all.  One day I became very strong and
gave birth, through teachings, in the form of figs.  My figs fell to the
ground near my trunk and were scattered to distant lands by the winds.  Soon
other trees began to sprout up around me.  This is humanity, I am happy
because I am living, healthy, and am giving birth to other people who will
be living and healthy, not sick and living a form of death.  My happiness is
the delight I get from my work.


Dan



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