File spoon-archives/nietzsche.archive/nietzsche_1998/nietzsche.9808, message 49


From: Sean Saraq <sean_saraq-AT-environics.ca>
Subject: RE: god
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:09:51 -0400 


The descriptions of the World Values Survey by the lead researchers
(Inglehart, Nevitte) use "postmodern" synonymously with
"postmaterialist", meaning that they are values of personal autonomy and
self-fulfilment which emerge once basic material needs being met is
essentially taken for granted. They point out that the emergence of
these values is correlated, but not directly correlated, with actual
material wealth. There is basically a material well-being threshold
which the so-called advanced industrial (postindustrial) countries have
crossed up to which there is a correlation between wealth and
postmaterialist values, but after which there is none.

Their suggestion is not that the Netherlands has no values, but rather
that there has been an evolution from values associated with traditional
communities, institutions and social status, to values of personal
autonomy and self-fulfillment, i.e. a type of individualism. All of the
advanced countries are on a similar values trajectory, though there are
anomalies, e.g. the persistence of high levels of attachment to
religious institutions in the US. In his book American Exceptionalism,
Lipset suggests that the US is an outlier on several dimensions, of
which continued high religiosity is only one.

As for "digesting Nietzsche", I don't think any country has done an
exceptional job. I think Deleuze has done an exceptional job, but that
he would be loathe to attribute this to his having been French (though
Nietzsche might say it was because he was French!)

Sean Saraq
Toronto

p.s. yeah, I'd like to live in the land of opportunity (I guess you mean
the US) at some point as well, but the city I live in is pretty American
in sensibility already. I'd like to try Boston or something similar.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	cornets-AT-2005.bart.nl [SMTP:cornets-AT-2005.bart.nl]
> Sent:	Tuesday, August 04, 1998 1:41 PM
> To:	nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> Subject:	RE: god
> 
> Sean Saraq:
> 
> >I'm happy to see that there are quite a few Dutch people on the list.
> As
> >you may be aware, the World Values Survey, which is the largest
> survey
> >of socio-cultural values in the world, found the Netherlands to be
> the
> >most "postmodern" in its values of the 43 countries surveyed. So I
> look
> >forward to your comments, since you seem to be in the lead of where
> the
> >world is heading, at least in terms of social values. And don't
> forget,
> >Nietzsche was writing philosophy for the following two centuries, so
> we
> >still have a Nietzsche-inspired/foretold century to go! Hopefully
> >someday I'll have the chance to live in Amsterdam and learn from you
> >directly.
> >
> En ha die Frank:
> 
> >> yeah,
> >> well kinda funny..of grappig zoals sommigen zeggen
> >> but now...??
> 
> 
> By being "postmodern" I suspect that this World Values Survey means
> that
> Holland has hardly any values at all. However this is not because we
> digested Nietzsche or any postmodern thinker, nor is it because we are
> so
> tolerant, (ask the Turks and Marrocans) - it all has to do with the
> fact
> that geographically we're sort of 'in the way', so that our main
> business
> has always been to trade. Being traders, we have to keep everybody
> happy. So
> we don't care much really _what_ you believe in or subscribe to, as
> long as
> you give us your money.
> Btw I recently found a gal in the land of opportunities; married her
> and
> emigrated. If any of you happens to visit Amsterdam, don't miss the
> Gay
> Games this week.
> 
> RC
> 
> 
> 
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