File spoon-archives/nietzsche.archive/nietzsche_1998/nietzsche.9809, message 41


Subject: RE: The more things change--
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:11:31 -0400


Hi Dan,

While I agree with (and admire) 99% of everything you've written on this
list, I have to disagree with your characterization of the Overman.

In some ways Nietzsche was a Greek (and a Roman) - never a Moor despite
that one asinine quote! - but it seems to me that ultimately he did not
su*bscribe to classical humanism - maybe the classical part, but not the
humanism nor democratism.

There is nothing Overman-like about realizing humans are animals - even
we mere "bridges" to the Overman can recognize that. The Overman doesn't
have to "realize" anything since his knowledge is somatic knowledge,
"acquired instinct" if you like. While Man has these "rational" ideas
floating before his consciousness, in the Overman this knowledge/wisdom
has been fully incorporated bodily.

"They should be concerned about themselves, first and foremost" sounds
more like that idiot Ayn Rand than Nietzsche. Though there is a tension
between egotism/individualism and a more generous openness in Nietzsche,
it is the second which is predominant; one can not emphasize enough this
"honey offering" aspect of his work. 

Sean

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Dan Dzenkowski [SMTP:djdzenko-AT-students.wisc.edu]
> Sent:	Thursday, September 17, 1998 11:29 PM
> To:	nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> Subject:	RE: The more things change--
> 
> At 08:41 PM 9/17/98 -0400, Sean Saraq wrote:
> >I get the impression that the Overman is not "the pinnacle of man" in
> >any sense, but rather a qualitative leap beyond man. As different
> from
> >man as man is from the other animals. The Overman is not the higher
> man,
> >but rather the overcoming of man. "The pinnacle of man" smacks of
> vulgar
> >humanism (Man in God's place).
> 
> 
>         Man as a decadent and weak creature has sought to change his
> existence. Man is something created by god, something special. Man is
> not
> like the animal, who is subject to drives to  procreate, dominate,etc.
> Man
> is something else, something imperfect from the universal, but close
> to it,
> indeed created from it.  Man is not an animal, he is different, he is
> rational!         What the Overman is, a myth ( I am still trying to
> work
> out the logistics of this idea, Nietzsche was a Greek) that makes
> people
> realize that they are not rational, or even humanistic.  They should
> be
> concerned about themselves, first and foremost.  The Overman
> overcomes,
> overcomes what?  Still haven't gotten any answers here.
>         The Overman overcomes many things, one is Man.  One way he
> does this
> is by realizing that man is an animal and is subject to animal drives.
> For
> example a will to dominate, a will to attack, etc.  Animals are not
> Man
> though, this is what makes the overman different from the animals.
> The
> overman realizes that man is separate and irrational and must create
> life
> inside of himself, not assume that a higher power created it.  And a
> man is
> an animal if he can not create and give rise to superabundant life in
> himself through personal creation.  Indeed many men are animals, and
> they
> clutter together in an unorganized mass, called the city.  That is why
> Z.
> instructs the wanderers to stay away from the city.  
>         Man is still Man, the Overman realizes that man is still an
> animal
> and thus nothing special, and if he wants to be special he needs to
> create,
> and give rise to the superabundance of life that may exist inside of
> him.
> "qualitative leap' sounds like metaphysics to me...A new God, Idol,
> etc.
>         Man is in God's place, he is required to create..god is dead.
> The
> higher man is different from the overman, maybe the list can discuss
> this,
> it has been rather dry lately.  This is a cool topic anyways, 4th book
> of
> Zarathsutra for those of you who don't know!
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
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