File spoon-archives/nietzsche.archive/nietzsche_1998/nietzsche.9809, message 45


Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:04:53 -0400
Subject: God is Dead?


Long live God.

I mean--

"Man" invented God, so long live the creators of the Gods of the future, too.

Dan:

Interesting thoughts.......

>        Man as a decadent and weak creature has sought to change his
>existence.

What is decadent and weak about changing one's existence?

>Man is something created by god, something special.

You mean that story, as told by various world religions?

>Man is not
>like the animal, who is subject to drives to  procreate, dominate,etc.

Yes, that IS a bad story, warped by some Christian views in particular. And
the joke of it all is that Christianity has gone along, like on the back,
of industrialized society at times. (The will to power just happened to
also imperialistically bring this vestige of the past with it, too.)

>Man
>is something else, something imperfect from the universal, but close to it,
>indeed created from it.  Man is not an animal, he is different, he is
>rational!

Yes, this is all something to consider. For one thing, when Ovid lamented
that the time for error was almost through (via "The Doctrines of
Pythagorus" in _Metamorphoses_), he blamed it on the *lack* of reason. The
time for error is almost always nearly through, isn't it? From Ovid, to
Jesus, to Auden......

>What the Overman is, a myth ( I am still trying to work
>out the logistics of this idea, Nietzsche was a Greek) that makes people
>realize that they are not rational, or even humanistic.

The error of Nietzsche, however-- or the excessiveness of him, I should
say, at times, instead-- is that in rebelling against what was clearly a
far too Victorian, two-faced, hypocritical society, he downplays the fact
that there are good reasons to be rational and humanistic at times.

>They should be
>concerned about themselves, first and foremost.  The Overman overcomes,
>overcomes what?  Still haven't gotten any answers here.

How about this? The OverPerson overcomes his/her "baser" instincts to
become noble enough to be in a position of *strength* to THEN give back. It
would be BASE to use one's strength in a cruel way. It is essentially a
Christian doctrine, cleansed of the weakness part. I mean, sure, help the
weak if you want to-- but don't bleed yourself so dry that you yourself are
weak, first. Otherwise, the whole thing collapses.

>        The Overman overcomes many things, one is Man.

This is maia (illusion). We will always be people. And we have a lot in
common with apes, by the way. (Anyone seen that "Planet of the Apes"
extravaganza on TV over Labor Day weekend?)

>One way he does this
>is by realizing that man is an animal and is subject to animal drives.

Yes...

>For
>example a will to dominate, a will to attack, etc.

Yes. But what about the will to be compassionate?

;-)

>Animals are not Man
>though, this is what makes the overman different from the animals.

Actually, even many "animals" have this same urge, if you look at
sociobiology of, say, lions or wolf packs.

Some good other thoughts in here, my friend.

Are Steve Callahan and Liam (I forgot your last name) still active in the
group, by the way?

        ---Randall Albright

                Better a full-armed feud
                than a friendship that's glued.
                        ---Nietzsche, from "The Gay Science"




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