File spoon-archives/nietzsche.archive/nietzsche_1998/nietzsche.9809, message 9

Subject: Re: Zarathustra's Dream
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:22:07 -0500

It is merely an accident of geography and history that Nietzsche, and
indeed, all of Western man fell so much under the sway of the Classical
culture. Western man is almost a polar opposite of the "ancient" Greeks.
The mid-day sun, high noon, conveys a sense of timelessness. Full of meaning
for the Greeks, but for Western man, he who put a clocktower in the center
of every town, devoid of real meaning. Hence, Nietzsche, like all great
Western thinkers, despite an immersion in the culture of the Greeks, comes
eventually to overcome this immersion. Indeed, in the Anti-Christ, Nietzsche
seems to praise most highly Moorish culture and Friedrich II who "coalesced"
with this culture.

"Christianity robbed us of the harvest of the culture of the ancient world,
it later went on to rob us of the culture of Islam. The wonderful Moorish
cultural world of Spain, more closely related to us at bottom, speaking more
directly to our senses and tastes, than Greece and Rome..."    The
Anti-Christ 60

Not that Nietzsche did not appreciate the achievements of the Greeks and

"Greeks! Romans! nobility of instinct, of taste, methodical investigation,
genius for organization and government, the faith in, the will to a future
for mankind, the great Yes to all things, visibly present to all the senses
as the Imperium Romanum..."

The Anti-Christ 59

However, to the physiognomic sceptic, every great culture reaches a
political apogee and zenith, when the world becomes, for an all to brief
moment, merely spectator and spoil...

John T. Duryea

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Dzenkowski <>
Date: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 4:27 PM
Subject: Zarathustra's Dream

>        In my weekly Nietzsche discussion group a problem arose that a few
>of you may be able to solve.  Seeing how the list does not want to work on
>discussion of Zarathustra in its entirety, I give up...for now.
>At Noon
>Z is sitting down at the bottom of a fruit bearing tree (he does this in
>first book).  He wants to pluck the grape from it, but does not and decides
>to sit down.  I think that the tree represents life its self and Z wishes
>praise instead of thoughtlessly take.  Z then falls asleep.  "Still" he
>the world has become perfect...he is dreaming, but his eyes are awake, or
>he really dreaming?  "golden sadness opposes her"  is this the refusal to
>will the eternal return and thus to accept the past and overcome resentment
>towards actions in the past, which prohibit you from moving forward?
>        Ship in the cove, is this representative of his years of wandering
>and finally having a place to rest that is without danger? But what danger
>can one really face, except resentment?  Once one has overcome resentment,
>what can harm one, Pirates, snakes, spiders?
>        Z keeps saying to keep still, why?  Why, does he not want the Old
>noon , not to wake up?  Is the old noon, the resentful one, that has to
>overcome his past and become reborn eternally as a child?  The eternal
>child.  Keep still it is the great noon.  Man walks on two legs at this
>of day, or life.
>    "It is  little that makes the best happiness." Is this why he wants it
>to be still and quiet?  What is going on?
>        "the well of eternity" "round ring" "break heart" are these not all
>descriptions of the eternal recurrence.  Is Zarathustra becoming more than
>higher man at this point "what is happening to me?"
>        "and he felt that he was asleep" Strange. I thought that he was
>asleep. What the hell is going on here?
>        Then he starts yelling at himself to get up!  No more stillest
>get up and follow your destiny.  Stop sleeping, stop dreaming, stop
>idealizing, stop falling into Plato's trap. He falls asleep again.  The
>world is perfect, let me sleep!  Zarathustra loves earthly things, but
>heaven shines on him.  When will transcendence come, is there more, why
>dew? "Cheerful, Dreadful abyss of noon!"  How long must I wait, are there
>not other things.  Must I sing the night song once more....
>        Zarathustra had been tempted to sit down and take it easy, that is
>not possible for the Ubermensch..his moment rest seemed like an eternity
>was a danger, he was drunken with rapture for a second.  He released all of
>his resentment through a burst of Dionysian rapture,which released him from
>Apollo's dream world.
>        This passage is so confusing any ideas out there.
>LambdaC, are you still with us?
>To the guy who recorded Nietzsche's  compositions, I wouldn't mind
>discussing some of the poetry behind those compositions are you still with
>us as well?
> --- from list ---

	--- from list ---


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