From: "Juan Cruz" <juancarloscruz-AT-hotmail.com>
Subject: Tips on how to be an overman
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 17:16:38 PST



Hey you all go to my page which have tips on how to be stronger physically 
and mentally. It is not making fun of Nietzsche's concept of the Superman, 
it is the best I could do to humanly possible (tools) on how to be an 
overman. What are the tools? Nietzsche says it very clearly, will, the body 
and books,
here it is:
   http://members.tripod.com/juantool/Superman.html

>From: Paul Bryant <levi_bryant-AT-yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>To: nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>Subject: Re: Nietzsche was an optimist
>Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 15:46:56 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>The stakes are very simple, and for this reason
>incredibly difficult:  What does a will want?  In its
>will to power, what does it seek?  Does it seek
>perpetual self-overcoming, to always be elsewhere, to
>be different than it is, to become other, to find a
>new way of feeling?  Or, by contrast, does it seek to
>maintain itself, to remain as it is, to protect itself
>against an outside, to set up an identity and be
>recognized in that identity?  Nietzsche was a master
>of these questions.  Whenever he resorted to
>biographical trivia (trivium?), it was always to treat
>these things as symptoms of a will functioning within
>them, as characterizations, dramaticizations of a
>certain way of willing and feeling, of creating or
>resisting creation.  (Klossowski would later adopt a
>similar procedure in his profound and difficult book
>_Nietzsche and the Vicious Circle_ where he treats
>Nietzsche's life as a symptom of the battling forces
>and will to power within him).  We find these figures
>everywhere, and they are never individuals or persons,
>but types, forms, diseases, cures, ways of feeling,
>perspectives detached from any perceiver...  They are
>types of being, creations of being.  There is the
>Socratic type, the Platonic type, the Heraclitan type,
>the Aeschylean type, the Schopenharean type, the
>Christian type, etc.  Never persons, never
>individuals, never biographies, but rather forms that
>will to power and the constellations of forces have
>taken.  One must develop an eye for interpreting
>types, for discerning the effectuation of will in its
>symptoms...  It's necessary to rescue power from being
>seen in terms of relations between individuals (a
>Hegelian/Hobbesian model, to seeing it effectuate
>itself in relations between forces themselves.  Such a
>move is a move from a naive, dogmatic perspective, to
>a critical, interpretive geneaological perspective.
>
>And moreover, in treating this question, it is never a
>matter of what you or I will...  It is not my will,
>but rather the will that wills within me, manifesting
>itself in a type.  What I call my will, which
>Nietzsche treats as a very specific illusion, is
>always a will to be represented as powerful, to be
>recognized as the one that is powerful.  But this is
>already a slavish way of thinking and talking about
>the will to power.  For I can only be recognized as
>powerful, represented as powerful, in terms of
>standard conventions and values of power.  Such a will
>only sees power as something exercised over an-other,
>as a domination effecting servitude and submission.
>It is the fantasy of mastery, the fantasy of a teenage
>boy beset by reactive psycho-social-sexual
>frustration, dreaming of being recognized by all about
>him.  But a will that wills power as recognition, that
>can only conceive power as the exercise of power on
>an-other, is also a will thats incapable of creating,
>of transvalueing, of finding that which affirms itself
>in itself and thereby demands an overcoming of the
>sickness of the self.  Nor, I think, can we say that
>such a creative will is ever done with its overcoming,
>that it ever reaches a state that could be called the
>overman in which everything is accomplished and
>becoming no longer need be a concern.  This would be a
>return to reactivity, to the maintenance of an
>identity against its own alterity.  Worse yet, it
>would fail to recognize the manner in which each type
>that we pass through is also an experiment, containing
>its own dangers, possibilities of failures, demands
>for new creations, demands for going beyond.  If there
>is a meaning to overman, it would be embodied in the
>perpetual undoing of self, it would be embodied in a
>Heraclitan game where fire disperses itself in
>measure, burning that which it creates so that
>something new might grow and in turn be consumed by
>flame.  What else would the maxim treat health as a
>perspective on sickness, and sickness a perspective on
>health mean?...  To see our health as a sickness and
>a sickness as a health, insofar as such a paradoxical
>way of thinking keeps us always in motion, always
>experimenting...  Sick from an abundance of health.
>
>And this, then, gives rise to perhaps the most
>important question:  What do Nietzscheans will?  Do
>they will to pay homage to the master by undoing the
>master, by discerning in him a grand experiment?  Or
>do they wish to pay homage to the master by creating a
>new theology based on Zarathustreanism?  Theres a
>reason Zarathustra detested his followers and
>dispersed them when given the opportunity.  Finally,
>there must above all be a caution exercised
>surrounding the desire to be represented as powerful
>and the desire to exercise power.  Appropriations such
>as these manifest themselves all too clearly among the
>Nazis...  Where the desire to overcome is not a
>desire to overcome the self, to feel differently, to
>live differently, but rather to overcome the other, to
>squelch them, and thus recapture their alienated
>selves.  So much of this latter sort of rhetoric
>manifests itself among vulgar Nietzscheans, albeit it
>in a way very different from Nazi rhetoric...  But
>still with the same mania and fantasy of recognition
>and representation...  The disgusting romantic fantasy
>of romantic American individualism, that in the end
>produces only the same and a complete inability to
>create anything, coupled with the paranoid desire to
>squelch all difference.  There is ample reason here to
>detest Nietzscheans, and perhaps even Nietzsche
>himself for rendering such slavish appropriations
>possible.
>
>My Two Cents,
>
>Paul Bryant
>Department of Philosophy
>Loyola University of Chicago
>--- LightofMadness InMyEyes <crazedstalker-AT-hotbot.com>
>wrote:
> > RIGHT ON.
> >
> > What's worse is the "I must be an overman, like my
> > rockstar hero Nietzsche, because I too ______ ."
> >
> >   -- margret
> >
> > ---
> > "There are stones buried in your soul,
> > and only a fool would blame the death of rock and
> > roll." -- Thomas Dolby
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 29 Feb 2000 14:14:55   Paul Bryant wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >--- Juan Cruz <juancarloscruz-AT-hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >> Certainly and a man that wrote hours and hours
> > for
> > >> months with headaches,
> > >> backpains, colds, definitely has to be an Iron, a
> > >> rock an almost superman
> > >
> > >Sure, but this is a rather uninteresting way of
> > >talking about matters...  Why not talk about what
> > >Nietzsche said and what the concept of the
> > "overman"
> > >is (note I don't ask what *an* overman *is*...  for
> > >the full prepositional force of *to move over*, to
> > >become is embodied here:  no thing or person is an
> > >overman, i.e., an accomplished state, instead, we
> > can
> > >only talk about those that have taken overcoming
> > upon
> > >themselves.  It's a verb, not a noun.) rather than
> > >speculating on whether or not Nietzsche was such.
> > >This sort of speculation smacks of fetishism and
> > hero
> > >worship...  And, worse yet, brings tears of boredom
> > to
> > >one's eyes, such as are experienced when teenagers
> > go
> > >on and on about their favorite rock stars and
> > >celebrities.
> > >
> > >Paul
> > >__________________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
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> > >
> >
> >
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> > http://www.hotbot.com
> >
> >
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> >
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