File spoon-archives/nietzsche.archive/nietzsche_2000/nietzsche.0003, message 25


From: "Juan Cruz" <juancarloscruz-AT-hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: nietzsche-digest V1 #713
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 10:53:12 PST


hey hey "The eagles attack in straight line." The nobility of the soul is 
easy to acknowledge for the absolute and rudeness that it uses to attack: 
"straight". -WP-944-Friedrich Nietzsche


>From: BERNARD R <chaimberel-AT-juno.com>
>Reply-To: nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>To: nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>Subject: Re: nietzsche-digest V1 #713
>Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 08:22:13 -0800
>
>
>
>
>
>On Tue, 29 Feb 2000 06:25:31 GMT nietzsche-digest
><owner-nietzsche-digest-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu> writes:
> >
> > nietzsche-digest      Tuesday, February 29 2000      Volume 01 :
> > Number 713
> >
> >
> >
> > In this issue:
> > =============> >
> >   Tragic Optimist        Re: alcohol and parties kill the will to
> > power
> >   "Juan Cruz"            Re: alcohol and parties kill the will to
> > power
> >   "Juan Cruz"            Re: the ubermenschen revealed?
> >
> >   zatavu-AT-excite.com      Re: alcohol and parties kill the will to
> > power
> >   "yinyang 100"          Re: FW 347
> >
> >   "yinyang 100"          Re: alcohol and parties kill the will to
> > power
> >   willhelm Thorn         nihillism
> >
> >   Syphon Soul            Re: nihillism
> >
> >   "Daniel J. Dzenkowski  Re: nihillism
> >
> >   willhelm Thorn         Re: nihillism
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 15:43:08 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Tragic Optimist <tragicoptimist-AT-yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: alcohol and parties kill the will to power
> >
> > However:
> > alcohol can also be seen as aiding the will to power.
> > If you consider some version of Yaung's
> >  ego/shadow theory, alcohol lessens the ego's control
> > and thus allows for the shadow (also part of the
> > individual) to show through. Will is also contained
> > within the shadow, therefore alcohol can actually
> > relese some repressed power of the will.
> >
> > > Juan Cruz wrote:
> > >
> > > > alcohol kills the will to power. Don't eat between
> > > meals, don't eat fat and
> > > > do some exercise, work the muscles. Our thoughts
> > > come from our muscles, do
> > > > not sit for a long time the body and the muscles
> > > need movement. Parties kill
> > > > the will to power (I remember in The Wanderer and
> > > His Shadow Nietzsche
> > > > talking about underdeveloped countries and why is
> > > it that they don't develop
> > > > themselves which is due to too much energies spent
> > > at wine and parties :-)
> > > >
> > >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > > > Get Your Private, Free Email at
> > > http://www.hotmail.com
> > > >
> > > >         --- from list
> > > nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> > > ---
> > >
> > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> > http://im.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > 	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 23:15:50 PST
> > From: "Juan Cruz" <juancarloscruz-AT-hotmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: alcohol and parties kill the will to power
> >
> > but only for a few minutes, after the effect of alcohol goes away it
> >
> > decreases the feelings of power, it gives you a feeling of weakness
> >
> > >From: Tragic Optimist <tragicoptimist-AT-yahoo.com>
> > >Reply-To: nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> > >To: nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> > >Subject: Re: alcohol and parties kill the will to power
> > >Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 15:43:08 -0800 (PST)
> > >
> > >However:
> > >alcohol can also be seen as aiding the will to power.
> > >If you consider some version of Yaung's
> > >  ego/shadow theory, alcohol lessens the ego's control
> > >and thus allows for the shadow (also part of the
> > >individual) to show through. Will is also contained
> > >within the shadow, therefore alcohol can actually
> > >relese some repressed power of the will.
> > >
> > > > Juan Cruz wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > alcohol kills the will to power. Don't eat between
> > > > meals, don't eat fat and
> > > > > do some exercise, work the muscles. Our thoughts
> > > > come from our muscles, do
> > > > > not sit for a long time the body and the muscles
> > > > need movement. Parties kill
> > > > > the will to power (I remember in The Wanderer and
> > > > His Shadow Nietzsche
> > > > > talking about underdeveloped countries and why is
> > > > it that they don't develop
> > > > > themselves which is due to too much energies spent
> > > > at wine and parties :-)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >______________________________________________________
> > > > > Get Your Private, Free Email at
> > > > http://www.hotmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > >         --- from list
> > > > nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> > > > ---
> > > >
> > > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> > >http://im.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> > >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> > 	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 23:21:35 PST
> > From: "Juan Cruz" <juancarloscruz-AT-hotmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: the ubermenschen revealed?
> >
> > HOWEVER, not following him but using his guidelines, and the school
> > of
> > discipline, he claimed that the un-disciplined is weak, i.e. the
> > military
> > schools make you strong :)
> >
> >
> > >From: "Daniel J. Dzenkowski" <djdzenko-AT-students.wisc.edu>
> > >Reply-To: nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> > >To: nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> > >Subject: Re: the ubermenschen revealed?
> > >Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 14:48:27 -0600
> > >
> > >The major question in your
> > > >post is whether Nietzsche is an overman
> > >
> > >The overman is the type of person that overcomes resentment and
> > creates new
> > >values through doing this.  Did Nietzsche overcome resentment?  I
> > think to
> > >a large degree.  Did he create new values?  "Become Hard"
> > >
> > >  I take his remark about
> > > >followers to mean that there is a class of people who are not
> > followers
> > >but
> > > >see on there own the goal that he sees.
> > >
> > >This is correct.  He does not want his disciples to live in his
> > image, he
> > >wants them to create their own.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> > >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> > 	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 15:37:11 -0800 (PST)
> > From: zatavu-AT-excite.com
> > Subject: Re: alcohol and parties kill the will to power
> >
> > On Tue, 22 Feb 2000 17:38:34 PST,
> > nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> > wrote:
> >
> > >  alcohol kills the will to power. Don't eat between meals, don't
> > eat fat
> > and
> > >  do some exercise, work the muscles. Our thoughts come from our
> > muscles,
> > do
> > >  not sit for a long time the body and the muscles need movement.
> > Parties
> > kill
> > >  the will to power (I remember in The Wanderer and His Shadow
> > Nietzsche
> > >  talking about underdeveloped countries and why is it that they
> > don't
> > develop
> > >  themselves which is due to too much energies spent at wine and
> > parties
> > :-)
> >
> > But do not forget Dionysos, who is the god of wine and parties. He
> > and
> > Nietzsche are one in his mind. And muscles are not all. We must sit
> > for a
> > long time in order to read and learn and expand our minds, which is
> > where
> > real strenght emanates. Remember, Nietzsche was not a body builder,
> > but a
> > scholar who sat around and read and wrote a lot. And while many of
> > those he
> > recognized as Ubermensche were physically strong, like Julius
> > Ceasar,
> > others, like Mozart, were not. Strength comes in many forms.
> >
> > Troy Camplin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________________
> > Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
> > Visit http://freeworld.excite.com
> >
> >
> >
> > 	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 04:54:27 PST
> > From: "yinyang 100" <yinyang100-AT-hotmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: FW 347
> >
> > jamin:
> > the comment you sent was very interesting. you said that there was
> > no
> > obvious comparison on zen buddhism and the philo of N, please
> > enlighten me.
> > this is also essential in my work.
> > nonetheless, in a section in the antichrist, nietzche discusses
> > buddhism and
> > tells in his opinion that buddhism to him is more realistic than
> > xtianity.
> > he was never really hostile about it.
> >
> > however, in my studies, i have seen related comparisons with the
> > east and
> > west. most specifically buddhism and existentialism.  this is quite
> > interesting because these are two very opposite sides of the poles.
> > for
> > example the noumenon/phenomen to brahman/atman.
> > and of course, both poles agree that suffering is the root of
> > consciousness
> > and the strife to live couragously despite the tragic sense of life.
> >  these
> > are just personnal, random views, i'm definite there are many
> > others. this
> > has led me to the nietzsche/zen comparison. gladly, i've found some
> > distinct
> > similarities. for example
> >
> > 1) on voluntary death
> > the shoguns regard that death should be a festival. taking their
> > lives
> > without remorse
> > 2) on amor fati
> > 3) on nihilism
> > the zen path is lead towards the annihilation of the ego. Nietzsche
> > as well
> > resolves that man is destined to realize nothingness.
> > 3)on becoming
> > to N, becoming is equivalent value every moment. the total value of
> > the
> > world cannot be evaluated. disregard of this could lead to
> > consequent
> > philosophical pessimism (a big slap on the face for schopenhouer)
> > which to
> > nietzsche is highly comical.
> > zen, however, tries to enhance our instinctive nature, living for
> > the
> > moment, highly sensitive to the now, towards the attainment of an
> > enlightened being.
> >
> > there are many others. and im eager to discuss it.
> > to the nietzche fanatic: i encourage you to read zen. it will humor
> > you,
> > specially for the fact that a peculiar culture back east (thousands
> > of ages
> > old) could be in parallel with what nietzche calls advanced thought.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: jamin <ben2-AT-mail.microserve.net>
> > >Reply-To: nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> > >To: nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> > >Subject: Re: FW 347
> > >Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 17:36:53 -0800
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> > >From owner-nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu Thu Feb 17 14:40:39
> > 2000
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> > >mail.virginia.edu
> > >References: <4.1.20000217121008.00947380-AT-students.wisc.edu>
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> > >
> > >I think we should be very careful not to apply Western standards to
> > the
> > >East.  Just because it is believed that suffering might be a worthy
> > part of
> > >existence doesn't mean that it is.  In fact it is critical that we
> > keep in
> > >mind that Nietzsche, Kant, and Schoppenhauer are all probably
> > dangerous men
> > >to listen to when it comes to Eastern thought being paradigmatic of
> > Western
> > >thought.  However, for the students sake who started this
> > conversation it
> > >might be concluded that there is no real comparison between Zen
> > Buddhism
> > >and
> > >Nietzsche, Nietzsche representing a hostile position with respect
> > to it.
> > >By
> > >the way is there a difference between will power and the will to
> > power? I
> > >seem to remember something about Nietzsche abandoning the will to
> > power as
> > >a
> > >philosophical position only to have it resurrected by his
> > anti-Semitic
> > >sister.
> > >BenB.
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: Daniel J. Dzenkowski <djdzenko-AT-students.wisc.edu>
> > >To: <nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
> > >Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 12:55 PM
> > >Subject: Re: FW 347
> > >
> > >
> > > > At 03:02 PM 2/17/00 -0800, you wrote:
> > > > >It strikes me that Nietzsche is hopelessly incorrect about the
> > birth of
> > > > >Buddhism.  In fact he seems to be giving away a profound
> > ignorance of
> > >its
> > > > >roots if what you say is correct.
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps you are reading too much into what I wrote.  Nietzsche
> > was a
> > >great
> > > > admirer of Schoppenhauer whom understood Buddhism quite well and
> > >introduced
> > > > it to western philosophy in conjunction with Kant.
> > > >
> > > >   Buddhism, at least Theravada Buddhism, is a solitary
> > > > >challenging path of reducing desire not of abandoning will
> > power.
> > > >
> > > > But what is will power?  Nietzsche thinks that desire is a large
> > part of
> > > > the will to power.  The desire to expand and increase the
> > potential of
> > >your
> > > > life in the real world is the greatest desire and is the will to
> > power.
> > >In
> > > > Zarathustra Nietzsche says that everything is will to power.  In
> >
> > >addition,
> > > > Nietzsche dislikes Buddhism because it attempts to escape the
> > pain of
> > > > desire through abandonment of the real world.  Pain is a
> > necessary part
> > >of
> > > > the world and a method by which one can gain power in life
> > through the
> > > > eternal recurrence.  A Buddhist would stop instantly with the
> > eternal
> > > > recurrence, because of pain.  I am sure that it is challenging
> > to try
> > >and
> > > > reduce the pain in your life, but this may be the best part of
> > life and
> > >the
> > > > Buddhist refuses himself access to it.
> > > >
> > > >  It also seems to me that
> > > > >Nietzsche to some extent lived a life similar to that of a
> > Buddhists in
> > >that
> > > > >he did not appear to pursue comfort.
> > > >
> > > > This does not mean that he did not avoid suffering.  He has many
> > things
> > >to
> > > > say about why the Stoics and Epicureans have a sickness of the
> > will.
> > > >
> > > > I think if he would have had better
> > > > >information he would have felt differently about Buddhists,
> > >Theravadists
> > >at
> > > > >least and probably Zen Buddhists as well.
> > > >
> > > > Check out Schoppenhauer's World as Will and you will see that he
> > did.
> > > >
> > > > Cordially,
> > > > Dan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> > >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> > 	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 05:25:59 PST
> > From: "yinyang 100" <yinyang100-AT-hotmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: alcohol and parties kill the will to power
> >
> > you can do whatever the hell you want to do with your life. be
> > yourself and
> > be authentic. lets not forget that the will to power is subjective.
> >
> >
> > >From: Juan Cruz <juancarloscruz-AT-hotmail.com>
> > >Reply-To: nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> > >To: nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> > >Subject: Re: alcohol and parties kill the will to power
> > >Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 23:15:50 PST
> > >MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > >
> > >
> > >but only for a few minutes, after the effect of alcohol goes away
> > it
> > >decreases the feelings of power, it gives you a feeling of weakness
> > >
> > >>From: Tragic Optimist <tragicoptimist-AT-yahoo.com>
> > >>Reply-To: nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> > >>To: nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> > >>Subject: Re: alcohol and parties kill the will to power
> > >>Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 15:43:08 -0800 (PST)
> > >>
> > >>However:
> > >>alcohol can also be seen as aiding the will to power.
> > >>If you consider some version of Yaung's
> > >>  ego/shadow theory, alcohol lessens the ego's control
> > >>and thus allows for the shadow (also part of the
> > >>individual) to show through. Will is also contained
> > >>within the shadow, therefore alcohol can actually
> > >>relese some repressed power of the will.
> > >>
> > >> > Juan Cruz wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > alcohol kills the will to power. Don't eat between
> > >> > meals, don't eat fat and
> > >> > > do some exercise, work the muscles. Our thoughts
> > >> > come from our muscles, do
> > >> > > not sit for a long time the body and the muscles
> > >> > need movement. Parties kill
> > >> > > the will to power (I remember in The Wanderer and
> > >> > His Shadow Nietzsche
> > >> > > talking about underdeveloped countries and why is
> > >> > it that they don't develop
> > >> > > themselves which is due to too much energies spent
> > >> > at wine and parties :-)
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>______________________________________________________
> > >> > > Get Your Private, Free Email at
> > >> > http://www.hotmail.com
> > >> > >
> > >> > >         --- from list
> > >> > nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > 	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> > >> > ---
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>__________________________________________________
> > >>Do You Yahoo!?
> > >>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> > >>http://im.yahoo.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> > >>
> > >
> > >______________________________________________________
> > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> > >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> > 	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:49:53 -0800 (PST)
> > From: willhelm Thorn <nikollet-AT-aSurfer.com>
> > Subject: nihillism
> >
> > Any thaughts about nietzsche and nihillism?
> >
> >
> >
> > _____________________________________________________________
> > Get your free Surfer email account at: http://www.aSurfer.com
> >
> >
> > 	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 04:13:24 +0100
> > From: Syphon Soul <haengen-AT-c2i.net>
> > Subject: Re: nihillism
> >
> > willhelm Thorn wrote:
> >
> > > Any thaughts about nietzsche and nihillism?
> > >
> >
> >   Nietzsche despised nihilism... seeing it as only a version of
> > apathy.... he desperatly sought to cure the nihilism he himself
> > created...
> >
> > To what extent he succeded I am not to say.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 23:32:08 -0600
> > From: "Daniel J. Dzenkowski" <djdzenko-AT-students.wisc.edu>
> > Subject: Re: nihillism
> >
> > At 05:49 PM 2/28/00 -0800, you wrote:
> > >
> > >Any thaughts about nietzsche and nihillism?
> > What brand do you have in mind?
> > nihilism ("naIhIlIz(-AT-)m, "nI-).
> > [f. L. nihil nothing + -ism. Cf. F. nihilisme, Sp. nihilismo, It.
> > nichilismo, G.
> > nihilismus, Russ.  nigilizm.]
> > 1. Negative doctrines in religion or morals; total rejection of
> > current
> > religious beliefs or moral principles.
> >
> > 2. Philos.
> > a. An extreme form of scepticism, involving the denial of all
> > existence.
> >
> > 1957 E. Mayer in P. A. Schilpp Philos. K. Jaspers xi. 451 Jaspers
> > vividly
> > describes nihilism as a symptom of mental illness or..as a
> > manifestation of
> > ultimate situations in which a human being can find himself in
> > depressions and
> > schizophrenias.
> >
> > 1880 Frasers Mag. May 65 Atheism is, in many respects, the Nihilism
> > of the
> > intellect and conscience.
> > 4. Theol. Nihilianism.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:25:04 -0800 (PST)
> > From: willhelm Thorn <nikollet-AT-aSurfer.com>
> > Subject: Re: nihillism
> >
> > Why is nihilism inevitable for nietztsche?
> > How was he able to overcome nihilism?
> > I find it absurd why nietzsche calls the concept of God as
> > nihilistic.
> >
> >
> > - --- Syphon Soul <nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu> wrote:
> > >willhelm Thorn wrote:
> > >
> > >> Any thaughts about nietzsche and nihillism?
> > >>
> > >
> > >  Nietzsche despised nihilism... seeing it as only a version of
> > >apathy.... he desperatly sought to cure the nihilism he himself
> > >created...
> > >
> > >To what extent he succeded I am not to say.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> >
> > _____________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
> > 	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of nietzsche-digest V1 #713
> > *******************************
> >
>
>
>	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
>

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