Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:18:50 +0100
From: Ruth Chandler <R.Chandler-AT-ucc.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: prisoner's dilemma defined


Hello Michal

i don't know if Nietzsche wouild belong to any kind of party so its
difficult to make the argument but, if we suppose,  fictively, that it is
the interests of the ubermensh (yet to come) that would be at stake for
Nietzsche's political interests, he would have no ethical duty to the
political party except as a means rather than an end. he would not be a
party follower but his dillema might be as follows. 

given that Nietzschehas criticised the pale criminal for not being equal to
his deed, it might be that guiltless confession would be what a Nietzschean
would want to be free to do. If gift giving is ultimately giving to oneself,
it seems difficult to imagine an ethical action taking lack of self
-interest as its basis unless, for Nietzsche, lack of self-interest is a
going under within his desires for the ubermensch.

 Nietzsche, the prisoner can do one of two things here. 

either he can decide that it is in his individual present interest to fake
lack of self -interest and defeat the dilemma entirely. this seems somewhat
shallow for N, the poets lie to much

or the interest of being free to create material conditions in the name of
the yet to come would make the lack of present self-interest ethically
viable regarding a bigger gift to the future. Nietzsche pedagogy seems to
work like this and is the option i would imagine him to take.

Ruth.C


>>> Michal Klincewicz <michal-AT-priest.com> 04/15 12:06 am >>>
here is an example of the famous problem often called 'the prisoner's
dilemma':

In the cells of the Ruritanian secret police are two politcal prisoners. The
police are trying to persuade them to confess to membership in the an
illegal opposition party.  The prisoners know that if neither of them
confesses, the police will not be able to make the charge stick, but they
will be interrogated in the cells for another three months before the police
give up and let them go.  If one of them confesses, implicating the other,
the one who confesses will be released immediately but the other will be
sentanced to eight years in jail. If both of them confess, their
helpfullness will be taken into account and they will get five years in
jail.  Since the prisoners are interrogated separately, neither can know if
the other has confessed or not.

The dilemma is, of course, whether to confess. The point of the story is
that circumstances have been so arranged that if either prisoner reasons
from the point of view od self-interestr, she will find it to her advantage
to confess; whereastaking the interests of the two prisoners togetehr, it is
obviously in their interests if neither confesses. Thus the first prisoner's
self-interested calculations go like this: "If the other prisoner confesses,
it will be better for me if i have also confessed, for then I will get five
years instead of eight; and if the other prisoner does not confess, it will
still be better for me if I confess, for then I will be released
immediately, instead of being interrogated for another three months. Since
we are interrogated seperately, whether the other prisoner confesses has
nothing to do with whether I confess--our choices are entirely independent
of each other. SO whatever happens, it will be better for me if I confess."
The second prisoner's self-intereseted reasoning will, of course, follow
exactly the same route as the first prisoner's, and will come to the same
conclusion. As a result, both prisoners. if self-interested, will confess,
and bothwill sped the next five years in prison. There was a way for them
both to be out in three moneths, but because they were locked into purely
seld-interested calculations, they could not take that route.

Now, my question is about a prisoner that is acting on Nietzschean ethical
principles (and what exacltly would they be). What would he/she do, and what
would be the rationale behind it?

----
Michal


______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup 


 --- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---

                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                            


	--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---