File spoon-archives/nietzsche.archive/nietzsche_2002/nietzsche.0205, message 47


From: "J" <matisse22-AT-earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Revenge
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 12:48:51 -0500


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.




three things,

this sounds like a wonderful discussion to me, but can we please put aside notions of "authentic" inquiry.

second, looking at a common dictionary is not really a very good place to start for understanding the place of revenge in N. For starters, it has MORE to do with one's own conscience and sense of "Debt" than with doing harm to others. It is linked to conscience and debt, and more importantly to time.  Zarathrustra tells us that revenge is ' the will's ill will against time.'  This may be a good place to start in understanding "Revenge," bringing in the christian heritage and notions of promises, debts, payments, etc.

Third, we are NOT AT BASE REVENGE.  You say that this is all we are ever doing. Might i make the distinction between ressentimal and revenge?  ressentimal is bad conscience, instincts turned against themselves, and thereby inherently in the realm of reaction.  Revenge, we might say, is one dominate characteristic of a person suffering from ressentimal.  But revenge is not what "all we are ever doing."  Reacting, yes, most likely, but revenge?

matisse

----- Original Message -----
  From: Drew Kopp
  To: nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
  Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 12:16 PM
  Subject: Revenge


  Saying what there is to say about revenge, I think would be a great start. I have a suggestion for how we could turn this into an inquiry.  Those of us that wish to use this list to have this inquiry could chug along, and simply ignore whatever minor irritations that may feebly attempt to distract us from doing something at least fun, if not even worthwhile if we could actually develop a real conversation.

  First of all, starting with Brian's great suggestion (looking in the dictionary), which really points to a bigger arena called 'what we think we know already about revenge'.  In effect, we could perform a little archaelogical dig on the word.  By the way, Nietzsche did some extraordinary work with this in the Geneology.  If this conversation lasts with any integrity beyond my posting here, perhaps we can bring what he's said to bear on our inquiry. (This is why we're on this list, right?)

  From the OED: retaliation for an offence or injury; satisfaction obtained by repayment of injuries. From the Latin, revindicare, meaning 'to lay claim to'. (Nietzsche takes up the latter meaning in his exploration of revenge.)

  he also links it to conscience and debt. More importantly, he links it to time.

  Starting with what we already know and think about this, it's possible to open up an authentic inquiry into the nature of revenge, and how each of us, in our being, is given by it with every breathe we take...




  Regardless of what anyone here has said, if you are a human being, not only have you had experience with revenge, but you have suffered from it and enacted it since birth. (Come on, think back, those things you did to your brothers/sisters/parents/nerds-bullies, etc. etc.)  In fact, by the time we are adults, we have perfected the art of revenge to such an extent, have lived so long with it, that we have fallen asleep to the fact that that is all we are ever doing.  It may differ in matter of degree only, but I would contend that the greatest pains inflicted and felt lie implicit in each and every psyche, which allows us to investigate this.

  Okay, who's next?

  Drew
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Scribe1865-AT-aol.com
    To: nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
    Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 10:08 PM
    Subject: ego


    so what is revenge?

HTML VERSION:

 
 
three things,
 
this sounds like a wonderful discussion to me, but can we please put aside notions of "authentic" inquiry.
 
second, looking at a common dictionary is not really a very good place to start for understanding the place of revenge in N. For starters, it has MORE to do with one's own conscience and sense of "Debt" than with doing harm to others. It is linked to conscience and debt, and more importantly to time.  Zarathrustra tells us that revenge is ' the will's ill will against time.'  This may be a good place to start in understanding "Revenge," bringing in the christian heritage and notions of promises, debts, payments, etc.
 
Third, we are NOT AT BASE REVENGE.  You say that this is all we are ever doing. Might i make the distinction between ressentimal and revenge?  ressentimal is bad conscience, instincts turned against themselves, and thereby inherently in the realm of reaction.  Revenge, we might say, is one dominate characteristic of a person suffering from ressentimal.  But revenge is not what "all we are ever doing."  Reacting, yes, most likely, but revenge?
 
matisse
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Drew Kopp
To: nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 12:16 PM
Subject: Revenge

Saying what there is to say about revenge, I think would be a great start. I have a suggestion for how we could turn this into an inquiry.  Those of us that wish to use this list to have this inquiry could chug along, and simply ignore whatever minor irritations that may feebly attempt to distract us from doing something at least fun, if not even worthwhile if we could actually develop a real conversation.
 
First of all, starting with Brian's great suggestion (looking in the dictionary), which really points to a bigger arena called 'what we think we know already about revenge'.  In effect, we could perform a little archaelogical dig on the word.  By the way, Nietzsche did some extraordinary work with this in the Geneology.  If this conversation lasts with any integrity beyond my posting here, perhaps we can bring what he's said to bear on our inquiry. (This is why we're on this list, right?)
 
From the OED: retaliation for an offence or injury; satisfaction obtained by repayment of injuries. From the Latin, revindicare, meaning 'to lay claim to'. (Nietzsche takes up the latter meaning in his exploration of revenge.)
 
he also links it to conscience and debt. More importantly, he links it to time.
 
Starting with what we already know and think about this, it's possible to open up an authentic inquiry into the nature of revenge, and how each of us, in our being, is given by it with every breathe we take...
 
 
 
 
Regardless of what anyone here has said, if you are a human being, not only have you had experience with revenge, but you have suffered from it and enacted it since birth. (Come on, think back, those things you did to your brothers/sisters/parents/nerds-bullies, etc. etc.)  In fact, by the time we are adults, we have perfected the art of revenge to such an extent, have lived so long with it, that we have fallen asleep to the fact that that is all we are ever doing.  It may differ in matter of degree only, but I would contend that the greatest pains inflicted and felt lie implicit in each and every psyche, which allows us to investigate this.
 
Okay, who's next?
 
Drew
----- Original Message -----
From: Scribe1865-AT-aol.com
To: nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 10:08 PM
Subject: ego

so what is revenge?
--- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---

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