File spoon-archives/nietzsche.archive/nietzsche_2002/nietzsche.0207, message 13


Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 03:53:57 -0500
From: "Kevin Sanchez" <heliogabalus-AT-eudoramail.com>
Subject: Re: Defining Islamism 


communist is defined by a centralization of the means of production, hence ownership of all property by the state - this is not a defining charateristic of socialism. socialism practices are instead charaterized by governmental policies which benefit all citizens, that is, policies directed toward public welfare. norway, for instance, is a democratic socialism - not because the government owns everything; it doesn't. but it also doles out a lot of money to the poor and to families. america may also be charaterized as somewhat socialist - social security, for instance, is a system everyone pays into whether they ultimately recieve payments when they retire or not. facsism is something completely different from socialism - and like i said, if hitler had called his state 'capitalist are us' it still wouldn't mean anything for capitalism as a political theory. eric, wrong as usual. uninteresting except in showing the lengths to which imperialistic apologists will go to pervert socialism to facsist ends.     ::kev





--

On Tue, 2 Jul 2002 22:52:22    Scribe1865 wrote:
>
>Heliogab writes 'but right-wing facsists were in complete control - meaning 
>they used 'socialism' much like Eric uses the term, as a mask and a 
>straw-person." 
>-------------------
>
>I was using "socialism" as a political theory. Socialists believe in 
>government ownership of all economic entities and land. That's the defining 
>characteristic in my nonconservative opinion. (Sure he disbanded trade 
>unions, but he maintained the distinguishing characteristic of statist 
>control.)
>
>The innovation of national socialist fascism was to realize that central 
>government did not have to OWN all economic entities in order to have total 
>power over them. Thus, fascists tend to be extremely authoritarian and also 
>comprehensive regulators. (Consider Hitler's fastidious rules about how to 
>kill lobsters.)
>
>Both ideologies -- and this is where leftism comes in by definition -- are 
>based on the subjugation of individual liberty and free markets by the agents 
>of the state.
>
>Now, was Hitler a "true" leftist?  Not in the utopian (let's-all-hold-hands) 
>sense bruited about on this List, but by the definition of government control 
>and exercise of power, he certainly was. 
>
>Eric
>NYC
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>


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