Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 03:53:57 -0500 From: "Kevin Sanchez" <heliogabalus-AT-eudoramail.com> Subject: Re: Defining Islamism communist is defined by a centralization of the means of production, hence ownership of all property by the state - this is not a defining charateristic of socialism. socialism practices are instead charaterized by governmental policies which benefit all citizens, that is, policies directed toward public welfare. norway, for instance, is a democratic socialism - not because the government owns everything; it doesn't. but it also doles out a lot of money to the poor and to families. america may also be charaterized as somewhat socialist - social security, for instance, is a system everyone pays into whether they ultimately recieve payments when they retire or not. facsism is something completely different from socialism - and like i said, if hitler had called his state 'capitalist are us' it still wouldn't mean anything for capitalism as a political theory. eric, wrong as usual. uninteresting except in showing the lengths to which imperialistic apologists will go to pervert socialism to facsist ends. ::kev -- On Tue, 2 Jul 2002 22:52:22 Scribe1865 wrote: > >Heliogab writes 'but right-wing facsists were in complete control - meaning >they used 'socialism' much like Eric uses the term, as a mask and a >straw-person." >------------------- > >I was using "socialism" as a political theory. Socialists believe in >government ownership of all economic entities and land. That's the defining >characteristic in my nonconservative opinion. (Sure he disbanded trade >unions, but he maintained the distinguishing characteristic of statist >control.) > >The innovation of national socialist fascism was to realize that central >government did not have to OWN all economic entities in order to have total >power over them. Thus, fascists tend to be extremely authoritarian and also >comprehensive regulators. (Consider Hitler's fastidious rules about how to >kill lobsters.) > >Both ideologies -- and this is where leftism comes in by definition -- are >based on the subjugation of individual liberty and free markets by the agents >of the state. > >Now, was Hitler a "true" leftist? Not in the utopian (let's-all-hold-hands) >sense bruited about on this List, but by the definition of government control >and exercise of power, he certainly was. > >Eric >NYC > > > > > > --- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- > > Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com --- from list nietzsche-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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