File spoon-archives/phillitcrit.archive/phillitcrit_1997/phillitcrit.9711, message 368


Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 13:53:15 +0100
From: "Joerg T. Gruel" <jtg-AT-owl-online.de>
Subject: Re: PLC: LA Neocolonialism


Ceri,

please don't go! I was that happy to see you join us, as I do think we all, in
particular those stern academics, need the generous voice of the artist.

Yet I cannot  make out the "vicious" in the post you've quoted. Though what is
said may be unpleasant, it appears to be based on well-pondered reasoning, to
which one may object (as opposed to resentment and prejudice, to which one can
only turn one's back). But perhaps it's not this, but the aggressive tone of many
recent messages that's disturbing you?

Three weeks ago, we had to come over the expulsion shock, lick our wounds, and
come to terms with the situation. But since then, I've watched the escalation of
the "list wars" with growing uneasiness. While I hold that Andreas and Denis are
wrong, and haven't acted with much wisdom, I still like them, and don't want their
characters discussed in public. The whole confrontation is going ridiculous, with
all those "swastikas", character studies, sneaking, exposure of private messages
and threats with "printed media" and calling the institutions in. It's not the
phil-lit moderators' privilege alone to behave like if they were in a
kindergarten. It simply can't be "them or us" between people discussing P&L! Some
of us have made our decisions, and that was that, but this does not turn people we
conversed with into monsters.

However, being an incorrigible optimist, I'm sure all of us will return to adult
peoples' ways sooner or later,  They have their ways on phil-lit, and it's a great
place, with great shortcomings too, avoiding perhaps frequent flames, but paying
for it with tiptoeing and, well, slight dishonesty and auto-censure; and our ways
of self-organization are just emerging - some fruits can already be plucked, if
you'd give it a closer look. I'm convinced we can work this list into that Café
where everyone may feel comfortable.

So may I urge you to just give it a bit more time to let the glory of
self-government shine in it's full beauty? It's worth the pain.

Yours,

Joerg

"Leicht beeinander wohnen die Gedanken" - Schiller (the continental)

Ceri Harris wrote:

> At 05:02 PM 07/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
> >>From John McWilliams,
> >
> >> your and Pat's repeated mention of Naziism is
> >>  thoroughly offensive)
> >
> >And I'm pretty offended by English chaps who come on like friends of the Jews
> >and as if they imagined they still had some moral mandate to instruct the
> > world on how to behave.  The English chaps never seem to realize that
> >England is one of the most egregiously anti-Semitic nations in Europe, and
> >they never seem to know English history, beyond memorizing the names of kings
> >and queens. .....
> >
> >
> >pat sloane, humble native in the colonies
> >
> >
> Please Reg unsubscribe me - freedom of speech is being confused here with
> licence to be vicious.
>
> Ceri
> Ceridwen Harris
> cerihrs-AT-execulink.com
> www.datahighways.co.uk/ceri
>
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