File spoon-archives/phillitcrit.archive/phillitcrit_1997/phillitcrit.9711, message 92


Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:02:42 -0500
From: George Trail <gtrail-AT-UH.EDU>
Subject: Re: PLC: A poem to critique


Dear Bill B,
Wedge your tongue between your nigh front teeth. I am going to be stern.
Hear me out.i'm in the brackets, per usual.
g

>Pat,
>
>There is something to what he says.
>To base one's judgement on a poem (or any work of
>art) by simply liking it or not liking it runs
>the risk of approaching it on the lowest level of
>what we

[who be we?]

call psychological aesthetics: the school
>of "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."
>
>There is such a thing as "formal" aesthetics, one
>that deals with proportion, balance, texture,
>etc..

[There are forumulae for say flower arranging in particular schools of
ikebana, but there are no formulae for judgment. That's why there are
judges.]

I'm sure you know all this but maybe need
>to be reminded so that you and Stirling can
>approach the idea more dispassionately.

[iIce try. You do real well as a respondent, but your air of being capable
of refereeing a combat of which you knot little has been exhausted.]
>
>And it's not at all a case of having or not
>having taste. The question is how refined is the
>taste of any human being. Children have a taste
>for bright colors and fantastic images, hence,
>Maurice Sendak (sp?). A lengthy exposure to fine
>art of any type, and a serious study of criticism
>(by excellent art critics) for a length of time
>refines the taste, for no other purpose than to
>derive the utmost of pleasure from those works
>experienced

[thanks, now I'll go read my Pater, as if I wanted a lecture on this
subject. You know not to whom you write, nor who you address particularly.]

>
>God Almighty doesn't issue aesthetic edicts; God
>or nature creates natural beauty, we create man or
>woman made beautiful objects. We comment
>critically on nature's beauty, but we wouldn't
>presume that it should be any other way than it
>is. Man made art is another thing.

[They ain't nuther art than man-made, forgiving your embedded sexism.]
>
>I can't speak for Stirling,

[Meaning you _can_ speak for Pat, why?]

 but if you take a
>look at Arnold's "Dover Beach," you may find one
>of the English language's perfect poems. From
>Wordsworth's Lucy poems, see "A slumber did my
>spirit seal." See also Frost's "Birches," and if
>you're adventurous, see his "Death of the Hired
>Man." Or look at Whitman almost anywhere.

[I'll go with the Whitman, but your tone is insufferably condescending. ]
>
>Again, I probably don't need to tell you, but
>maybe others would care to go to the library and
>look into the Encyclopedia of Philosophy for the
>article on "Aesthetics." It goes on for several
>pages and explains somewhat the difference
>betweem formal and psychological aesthetics.
>
>I hope you don't think I'm lecturing, and I hope
>this is a bit helpful.

[Audience, audience, audience. this is not even a lecture. I would't give
it to a first year college student. NIcw to see you again Bill. Glad I seem
to have restrained your uge to trash Walt the amaing.
>
>Regards,
>
>Bill Ball
>
>
>
>
>
>> OK, so you're not just a human being with taste.  You're God almighty
>>issuing
>> aesthetic edicts.  I'd still like to see a poem you think is good, if there
>> is such a thing, because it would give me a better idea of where you're
>> coming from.  First thing I want to know, when a person comes on like
>> gangbusters in a very negative way, is whether that's the only dimension to
>> that person.  Some people bitch about everything, but have no idea what they
>> like--or, if you like la da da rhetoric--what would be deemed worthy of
>>their
>> "aesthetic approval."
>>
>> Take it as a compliment that I'm asking these things.  I'm willing to
>> consider taking you seriously if you can show me a reason I ought to do so.
>>  All you've come up with so far is some smart aleck remarks and a few
>> unreadable or incomprehensible paragraphs of "aesthetic theory."  I'm just
>> asking for an example of what you call "aesthetic theory" in operation.  If
>> you never saw a poem that you liked, not to worry.  That's just you. Is that
>> the case?
>>
>> pat sloane
>>
>WILLIAM BALL, Professor of Humanities
>Franklin Pierce College
>ballw-AT-rindge.fpc.edu
>
>      "Wisdom is what's left when
>       you forget all the facts."
>
>
>
>
>
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