From: Immanuel Smits <ismits-AT-ardron.com> Subject: PLC: RE: infinity + Spinoza = spinfinity Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 16:33:11 -0500 Eric, You wrote: >> God's essence includes existence, and being self-caused, >> He doesn't fit into the definition of finite. > > Here are some obvious objections: > (a) How do we know there can be no self-caused finite entities? > (b) The earlier statement that all that can be known of God is God's > "infinity" cannot be reconciled with the assumption that God's > essence includes existence. > > Da capo, how can we know infinity is not a distortion of the imagination? In response to objection (a): This objection jolted me! What!? Stepping out of the causal network? Can we legally do that? Whoa! The freedom of not needing to show causality is making me feel young all over again. Seriously now. You've placed the onus on me to prove that all things finite cannot be self-caused. I think that maybe we aren't on the same wavelength in terms of our definitions. Spinoza gives this definition of "self-caused" in _Ethics_ Part I, Definition 1: "By that which is self-caused I mean that whose essence involves existence; or that whose nature can be conceived of only as existing." And "finite" in Definition 2: "A thing is said to be finite in its own kind (in suo genere finita) when it can be limited by another thing of the same nature. For example, a body is said to be finite because we can always conceive of another body greater than it. So, too, a though is limited by another thought. But body is not limited by thought, not thought by body." So now that we are on the same wavelength in terms of definitions, I wonder if you'd be willing to explain in more detail your first objection. I suspect that your first point would be to challenge the definitions. But that is the framework from which the original quotation of Spinoza was taken. With regard to objection (b), I think that having introduced definitions, I have rearranged the playing field and you may wish to change this objection as well. Judging from the responses on this list, it seems that we have strayed from the original questions and spun off into infinity. I hope that we can regroup and face the challenges that Spinoza has to offer. More later, Immanuel --- from list phillitcrit-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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