From: Douve1-AT-aol.com Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 20:36:35 EDT Subject: Re: PLC: Poetry, prose, fiction as meaningful In a message dated 08/25/2000 7:30:39 PM Central Daylight Time, zatavu-AT-excite.com writes: Troy, Allow me to respond without taking you out of context. > On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:32:04 -0400, phillitcrit-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu > wrote: > > > On 8/25/00 4:31 PM zatavu-AT-excite.com wrote: > > > > > Poetry attempts to transcend. Prose attempts to tell a story clearly > rooted > > > in this world. > > > > No, no. you got it backwards. If goes like this: Poetry attempts to tell > a > > story clearly rooted in this world. Prose attempts to transcend. Yep, > that's > > the way it goes. You just typed it backward out of the big black book > that > > catagorizes literature with insipid one-liners. There are more of these > too, > > like: Poetry is pretty. Prose is not pretty. Or: Poetry rhymes. Prose > > doesn't rhyme. Poetry is general. Prose is specific. > > You are an ass, I am not. > You are bitter because you wish you could be a novelist, but have no talent, > I am not because I do have talent and I am a novelist. Get stuffed, dear. You have no idea what Barron there wishes he could be because you do not know him personally. Further, you seem to think that because you are a writer that you have more insight into writers than does Barron, or a critic who does not write "creatively" (the quotation marks are there because, as a creative writer who also writes critical work, I know that both acts are creative -- just in different ways and to different ends.) It is possible, Troy, to be a writer and have no idea what OTHER writer's do when they are writing. Have you heard of the Intentional Fallacy? It basically admits that none of us are mindreaders -- including you. Now stop sulking. > Deep down you really hate literature because you can't make it yourself and > so want to destroy it by making it something no one wants to enjoy, I love > literature and want to make it accessible to everyone so people will want to > read my novels as well. STOP IT NOW. STOP referring to novels we cannot read as they have not, at least not in my checking around on the net, been published. This is cheating at cards, Troy. And I did check. I wanted to see if I could find some, any, support for the claims you make about them. But I can't, which renders your claims utterly and completely vacuous. Quit wasting my time, Troy. And STOP making assumption and assertions you can't back up. Believe me, if you were in one of my grad classes and talked like this, made these 'arguments' I would cut you to ribbons. I can't stand this kind of half-baked bullshit. And do, dear, do call me an ass. Or, go the Miller route and call me a cunt. Lately, I would be proud to be in such company. > > I think that is getting closer to the core of the truth. > > > > > I tried to give an extreme in surrealism to show that taking > > > such a position can be utterly ridiculous if you want to include all > > > literature. > > > > And you failed in so doing. Extreme was only just that. Extreme. You > ended > > up in the ridiculous position. No one else. > > > > > That is why I think I can legitimately call it literature. > > > > Anyone call call anything legitimate literature if they make up their own > > rules. > > The surrealists did it. James Joyce did it. Don Barthelme did it. And what > do you know, they were all accepted as literature. > > YOu through showing off your ignorance now? > > Troy Camplin You are. Barron, and I and G and others have asked you repeatedly to bloody well clarify what you mean, to support your claims, to do something other than opinionate. You have either consciously refused, or have no earthly idea what we mean when we say that your arguments are insubstantial and incoherent. If that's the case, shut up and learn. Your hubris, your sheer defensive obstinacy are simply annoying; and Barron, after a very long exchange in which he was plenty polite with you, has lost his patience. You asked for it. You got it. Now stop acting like a petulant child. Simone > --- from list phillitcrit-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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