From: Patsloane-AT-aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 12:08:30 EDT Subject: Re: PLC: Howard on Mein Kampf (was Fairness to Faulkner) In a message dated 8/9/00 5:53:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hhasting-AT-osf1.gmu.edu writes: > On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 Patsloane-AT-aol.com wrote: > > > As we're not doing a very good job of resolving racism, sexism, and > > antisemitism, I think we may need to study the process much more closely > and > > in its entirety. And I mean serious study in depth, not just a lot of > > histrionic ranting and raving about who are supposed to be the good guys > and > > who are supposed to be the bad guys. > > Well how might that be accomplished in an email discussion? In a > previous thread I have argued that one reason why people link Nazism > with Marxism to obscure the roots of Nazism in still valued cultural > traditions. Is that worth looking into or is that still me being part of > the problem? > > So far I have argued on the Faulkner thread that > > 1. Racism can be built into a novelist's apparently ordinary > description of one character's reaction to another. > > 2. That this occurs in Faulkners work, and I have offered an > example thereof. Howard, Let's stop here. As I believe you said you didn't know much about Faulkner, could we talk about an author you feel you know about? Otherwise, I'm going to get flashbacks to those dreadful Phil-lit bashes in which Heidegger was being resoundingly trounced. And if one made discreet inquiries offline (as I did), one found that a goodly number of those right in the thick of it had never read anything written by Heidegger. > Well a person who takes a thoughtful approach, reading only literary > analyses and biographies of Eliot, might assume that the charge rests on > several lines in Ara Vos Prec. HH, I'm going to let you in on a little secret of literary studies. Part of studying a writer is reading what that writer wrote, not just reading what others wrote about the writer. As I gather you skip that part in cultural studies, I'll not ask you if you happen to know which poems or lines in Ara Vos Prec are at issue. > But a more reductive person, who is aware that charges of anti-semitism > have been around since Eliot refused support fellow writers and academics > in a protest of the fate of Jewish writers and academics during Hitler's > rise to power, I believe this involved a petition he refused to sign on the grounds that it was exploiting the misery of others for purposes of self-promotion. Same issue came up over and over during Vietnam War. Artists were being repeatedly asked to submit paintings for exhibitions "to protest the war." The point was made (rightly in my opinion) that this was an inexcusable ego trip. That the exhibition would promote the names of the participating artists and not do a thing to stop the war. If you're interested enough in this to do some reading, Roger Kojecky is a good person...one of the few who took the time to get his facts straight on Eliot's political activities and views. was much disucssed by Marxist writers in the 70s and 80s, > and would be quite passe in cultural studies circles at present--such a > person would assume that there are and have been different groups finding > antisemitism in Eliot to different degrees and on different grounds. 1) What were the Marxist writers gabbing about in the 70s and 80s? A petition that Eliot objected to signing in the 1930s? Did any of the "Marxist writers" publish any of their much discussed views on T. S. Eliot? If not, and these are more pals of yours, do you happen to know any of their names? 2) To the extent that you're trying to pass off "Marxist writers" as friends of the Jews, this indeed I wasn't aware of. Unless maybe in the "with friends like these, who needs enemies?" category. > The cultural studies folks I know would focus on Eliot's vision of a > hierarchical, organic culture suffused with Christian influence. This > because of the connections to much protofascist conceptions of > culture. This is exactly the question I asked. You and your cultural studies pals heard that Eliot was accused of being antisemitic. So you figured it must be because he used words like Christianity and culture, which you regard as protofascist (except of course in "cultural studies"). I wasn't aware that "hierarchical" and "organic" were also regarded as protofascist. But, in any case, these are not what the issues are, at least among those writers who've published on the subject. If you're saying that you and your cultural studies pals see it differently, I've no objection to taking your word for this. If you don't want to read Eliot's poetry, or any of the books published about it, or haven't gotten around to doing so yet, then of course I'd expect you to have a different perspective. > > Sounds like you know a lot about > Eliot. And you find his combination of "Christiantiy" and > "culture" rather innocous. What is the place of Jews in the organic, > hierarchical society he envisions? Is there, perhaps one, only one, > derogatory paragraph speaking to this matter? What does it say? I don't have any objection to utopianism, or to people who use words like Christianity, Judaism, organic, inorganic, or hierarchical. I also don't think it's appropriate for you to appoint yourself as a spokesperson for the Jews, especially as you've identified yourself in the past as a Marxist and an atheist. It's patronizing of you, and insulting. As a Jew, I don't appreciate your advising me on what Jews are supposed to think, about T. S. Eliot or anything else. If my line of thought doesn't fit your preconception of how Jews (all of us?) think, it's downright nervy of you to pressure me to change my ideas just to suit your convenience. Try changing your preconceptions instead, because you're just being exploitive. I don't have an impression that you have any serious concern for the Jews, not one bit. You're on the prowl for authors to scold, T. S. Eliot will do as well as anyone, and you think you make your scolding sound more authoritative in this case if you hide behind a mask of benevolence--if you pretend you have a mandate to defend us poor Jews. Come down to earth, Howard. Unappoint yourself from your role as protector of the Jews, and let your arguments stand on their own. No, I can't name paragraphs in ICS or Notes... that are derogatory towards Jews. I don't even recollect Jews being mentioned in these texts. As I told you, these aren't the texts at issue, and the complaints center almost entirely on AVP and ASG. Show me the paragraphs that have agitated your cultural studies pals. pat --- from list phillitcrit-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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