File spoon-archives/postanarchism.archive/postanarchism_2003/postanarchism.0306, message 139


Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:57:55 +1000
From: "dr.woooo" <dr.woooo-AT-nomasters.org>
Subject: [postanarchism] Re: re: Race Traitor: "Abolish the White Race"



Hi Richard, well said, perhaps you or someone else could post the open archive 
link for postanarchism to autopsy list, ( i only read the archive and am not 
subscribed )

http://lists.village.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/spoons/archive1.pl?
list=postanarchism.archive

the way i see it, the development of radical theory and practice can only 
benefit from dialogue between these groups.

for those interested in aut-op-sy check out
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/spoons/archive1.pl?list=aut-op-
sy.archive

this month

http://lists.village.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/spoons/archive1.pl?list=aut-op-
sy.archive/aut-op-sy.0306


thanks
v.

Quoting Richard Singer <ricinger-AT-inch.com>:

> Spencer writes:
> 
> > Thank you! Why is there so much microwaved marxism on this list anyway? It
> seems clear that, by the rejection of  Marxist (here I am including
> non-Leninist class & mode -of-production-centrist theories as well) by every
> other primary contemporary social movement (i am thinking here of those
> which address sexuality, gender, environmentalism & ethnicity), that we need
> to move awwwwway from this view, hence the appeal of post-structuralism in
> general...
> >
> 
> But doesn't autonmist Marxism also reject traditional
> mode-of-production-centrist approaches as well?  For one thing, much of what
> I've read by autonomist Marxists seeks to take into account these other
> struggles of difference very much within the sort of dynamic that Jason
> describes.  Also, autonomist Marxism (and newer, more innovative Marxism in
> general) does not focus on the traditional, physical means of production
> (e.g., the factory) as the only source of proletarian struggle but seeks to
> greatly broaden the concept of labor and notions about where and how labor
> exists (so that we have instead, e.g., the social factory).
> 
> To me, the new Marxism is important (though much of it is over my head
> academically -- which leads me to wonder how it is ever supposed to reach
> the "masses" or the "multitude" outside of the Ivory Tower), precisely
> because it makes efforts to continue examining and confronting issues about
> class and labor that are neglected by most contemporary, mainstream social
> movements (as well as most anarchism, for that matter).  On the other hand,
> by wishing to continue the examination of class composition and conflict, by
> focusing on class struggle, and by fully appreciating some of the
> still-very-relevant insights of Marx, this does not at all mean that they/we
> want to place a ridgidly defined concept of class struggle at the top of
> some linear hierarchy of causes.
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
> P.S.  One more point:  I wouldn't judge the validity of any movement by the
> popularity among other social movements or lack thereof.  I think most of
> our "primary" social movements and the people within them are far from
> transformative or revolutionary.  The popularity or prevalence of a movement
> isn't equal to the potential of that movement to create revolution or real
> social change.  In fact, unfortunately, many people within many of these
> movements can turn out to be ultimately reactionary.  But it is really
> difficult to ascertain what approaches, exactly, are favored by these other
> social movements (or not) beause these movements are so broad.  For
> instance, in the environmentalist movement, there is a strong element that
> seeks to combine environmental struggle with elements of Marxism and there
> is a strong anti-Marxist element, and there is a supposedly strong
> anti-Marxist, anti-workerist element that is actually grounded in many
> Marxist concepts, etc., etc....
> 
> 
> > "The problem with Race Traitor is not the desire to abolish whiteness but
> > rather that ultimately there is no such thing as a
> > "fundamental" form of oppression that needs to be
> > abolished - this tired rhetoric of Race Traitor and
> > now of the Ruckus group in Arizona is really just the
> > mirror of mainstream workerist, feminist,
> > environmentalist and other rhetorics which seek to pin
> > down *the* main issue rather than accepting the
> > insight that there is no such thing, that all forms of
> > oppression have histories that are both autonomous and
> > interwoven; hence the relevance of a radical politics
> > of difference such as we have in poststructuralism and
> > contemporary anarchism."
> >
> >
> > "J.M. Adams" <ringfingers-AT-yahoo.com> wrote:Its true that Race Traitor
> calls for the abolition of
> > the white race (i.e., not actual human beings of
> > courese, but the abolition of the category and all of
> > its privileges and perhaps, lack thereof in the case
> > of "hillbillies") as the first and most fundamental
> > step to the unity of the working class in the context
> > of the United States - this is because they are
> > fundamentally Marxist (albeit unorthodox obviously)
> > and thus see the unity of the working class as the
> > primary goal of any revolutionary social movement. But
> > aside from this, if read critically and used in a
> > somewhat different way it does seem that their
> > argument that the white race is socially constructed
> > and based in the American racial history would be
> > amenable to those attracted to the subject matter of
> > this listerv, as certainly there is no such thing as a
> > "white" person, there is no "white" culture, other
> > than corporate consumer culture and thus abolishing
> > the so-called white race *would* "raise everyone up"
> > perhaps no one more than the hillbillies! My family is
> > originally from the part of southern Appalachia being
> > scoured right now by CBS for subjects to exploit in
> > that hideous "reality" show actually and it seems to
> > me that if there wasnt this dominant rhetoric of
> > whiteness in that region (the lore that everyone is
> > supposedly of "Scots-Irish" extraction) there may
> > actually be more recognition of the mixed race and
> > indigenous background that a very large percentage of
> > them have, such as the Melungeons or the Lumbees, etc.
> > (in the 1970s AIM went through this region and kicked
> > up a mini-resurgence of Native awareness) which would
> > then not only provide more of a possibility of unity
> > amongst poor people of all colors in the region but
> > also more of a long-term sense of history and
> > rootedness in the land that is being obliterated by
> > strip-mining on a daily basis. The problem with Race
> > Traitor is not the desire to abolish whiteness but
> > rather that ultimately there is no such thing as a
> > "fundamental" form of oppression that needs to be
> > abolished - this tired rhetoric of Race Traitor and
> > now of the Ruckus group in Arizona is really just the
> > mirror of mainstream workerist, feminist,
> > environmentalist and other rhetorics which seek to pin
> > down *the* main issue rather than accepting the
> > insight that there is no such thing, that all forms of
> > oppression have histories that are both autonomous and
> > interwoven; hence the relevance of a radical politics
> > of difference such as we have in poststructuralism and
> > contemporary anarchism.
> >
> >
> >
> 
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