Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:57:55 +1000 From: "dr.woooo" <dr.woooo-AT-nomasters.org> Subject: [postanarchism] Re: re: Race Traitor: "Abolish the White Race" Hi Richard, well said, perhaps you or someone else could post the open archive link for postanarchism to autopsy list, ( i only read the archive and am not subscribed ) http://lists.village.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/spoons/archive1.pl? list=postanarchism.archive the way i see it, the development of radical theory and practice can only benefit from dialogue between these groups. for those interested in aut-op-sy check out http://lists.village.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/spoons/archive1.pl?list=aut-op- sy.archive this month http://lists.village.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/spoons/archive1.pl?list=aut-op- sy.archive/aut-op-sy.0306 thanks v. Quoting Richard Singer <ricinger-AT-inch.com>: > Spencer writes: > > > Thank you! Why is there so much microwaved marxism on this list anyway? It > seems clear that, by the rejection of Marxist (here I am including > non-Leninist class & mode -of-production-centrist theories as well) by every > other primary contemporary social movement (i am thinking here of those > which address sexuality, gender, environmentalism & ethnicity), that we need > to move awwwwway from this view, hence the appeal of post-structuralism in > general... > > > > But doesn't autonmist Marxism also reject traditional > mode-of-production-centrist approaches as well? For one thing, much of what > I've read by autonomist Marxists seeks to take into account these other > struggles of difference very much within the sort of dynamic that Jason > describes. Also, autonomist Marxism (and newer, more innovative Marxism in > general) does not focus on the traditional, physical means of production > (e.g., the factory) as the only source of proletarian struggle but seeks to > greatly broaden the concept of labor and notions about where and how labor > exists (so that we have instead, e.g., the social factory). > > To me, the new Marxism is important (though much of it is over my head > academically -- which leads me to wonder how it is ever supposed to reach > the "masses" or the "multitude" outside of the Ivory Tower), precisely > because it makes efforts to continue examining and confronting issues about > class and labor that are neglected by most contemporary, mainstream social > movements (as well as most anarchism, for that matter). On the other hand, > by wishing to continue the examination of class composition and conflict, by > focusing on class struggle, and by fully appreciating some of the > still-very-relevant insights of Marx, this does not at all mean that they/we > want to place a ridgidly defined concept of class struggle at the top of > some linear hierarchy of causes. > > Richard > > > P.S. One more point: I wouldn't judge the validity of any movement by the > popularity among other social movements or lack thereof. I think most of > our "primary" social movements and the people within them are far from > transformative or revolutionary. The popularity or prevalence of a movement > isn't equal to the potential of that movement to create revolution or real > social change. In fact, unfortunately, many people within many of these > movements can turn out to be ultimately reactionary. But it is really > difficult to ascertain what approaches, exactly, are favored by these other > social movements (or not) beause these movements are so broad. For > instance, in the environmentalist movement, there is a strong element that > seeks to combine environmental struggle with elements of Marxism and there > is a strong anti-Marxist element, and there is a supposedly strong > anti-Marxist, anti-workerist element that is actually grounded in many > Marxist concepts, etc., etc.... > > > > "The problem with Race Traitor is not the desire to abolish whiteness but > > rather that ultimately there is no such thing as a > > "fundamental" form of oppression that needs to be > > abolished - this tired rhetoric of Race Traitor and > > now of the Ruckus group in Arizona is really just the > > mirror of mainstream workerist, feminist, > > environmentalist and other rhetorics which seek to pin > > down *the* main issue rather than accepting the > > insight that there is no such thing, that all forms of > > oppression have histories that are both autonomous and > > interwoven; hence the relevance of a radical politics > > of difference such as we have in poststructuralism and > > contemporary anarchism." > > > > > > "J.M. Adams" <ringfingers-AT-yahoo.com> wrote:Its true that Race Traitor > calls for the abolition of > > the white race (i.e., not actual human beings of > > courese, but the abolition of the category and all of > > its privileges and perhaps, lack thereof in the case > > of "hillbillies") as the first and most fundamental > > step to the unity of the working class in the context > > of the United States - this is because they are > > fundamentally Marxist (albeit unorthodox obviously) > > and thus see the unity of the working class as the > > primary goal of any revolutionary social movement. But > > aside from this, if read critically and used in a > > somewhat different way it does seem that their > > argument that the white race is socially constructed > > and based in the American racial history would be > > amenable to those attracted to the subject matter of > > this listerv, as certainly there is no such thing as a > > "white" person, there is no "white" culture, other > > than corporate consumer culture and thus abolishing > > the so-called white race *would* "raise everyone up" > > perhaps no one more than the hillbillies! My family is > > originally from the part of southern Appalachia being > > scoured right now by CBS for subjects to exploit in > > that hideous "reality" show actually and it seems to > > me that if there wasnt this dominant rhetoric of > > whiteness in that region (the lore that everyone is > > supposedly of "Scots-Irish" extraction) there may > > actually be more recognition of the mixed race and > > indigenous background that a very large percentage of > > them have, such as the Melungeons or the Lumbees, etc. > > (in the 1970s AIM went through this region and kicked > > up a mini-resurgence of Native awareness) which would > > then not only provide more of a possibility of unity > > amongst poor people of all colors in the region but > > also more of a long-term sense of history and > > rootedness in the land that is being obliterated by > > strip-mining on a daily basis. The problem with Race > > Traitor is not the desire to abolish whiteness but > > rather that ultimately there is no such thing as a > > "fundamental" form of oppression that needs to be > > abolished - this tired rhetoric of Race Traitor and > > now of the Ruckus group in Arizona is really just the > > mirror of mainstream workerist, feminist, > > environmentalist and other rhetorics which seek to pin > > down *the* main issue rather than accepting the > > insight that there is no such thing, that all forms of > > oppression have histories that are both autonomous and > > interwoven; hence the relevance of a radical politics > > of difference such as we have in poststructuralism and > > contemporary anarchism. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- sig/ http://www.infoshop.org http://www.reclaimthestreets.org http://www.ainfos.ca http://slash.autonomedia.org http://www.agp.org
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