From: swilbur-AT-wcnet.org Subject: Re: [postanarchism] The Agreement of Zizek and Katsiafiacas on Multiculturalism Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:11:20 US/Eastern > As for Sasha's argument that "*nowhere in the text you > quote does he call for coexistence with Islamic > fundamentalism in any way*" I really disagree here, > because, just as with the issue of Cultural Studies, > which he seemingly 'flatly rejects' but at the same > time turns around and says that actually, it should be > our central concern (and certainly Cultural Studies > folks are using his critiques *all the time* these > days), here too he is not saying just that either. Hmmm. Zizek appears to embrace and reject cultural studies more or less simulataneously, so we should understand all of his rejections as at the same time embraces of some sort...? It is precisely correct that *nowhere* in the text is coexistence with Islam even the issue. If you wish to draw out an argument based on other parts of Zizek's work, then go for it, but it simply *isn't* in the text we were discussing. > His > argument is basically that in the West we believe that > we are multicultural, liberal and tolerant, but oddly > enough, the one thing we are really intolerant of, is > other societies that we percieve to be intolerant, To be intolerant of intolerance is hardly strange, is it - assuming the "other" really is intolerant? At issue is whether that intolerance of the other is real, or whether it simply a manifestation of racism. > such as what we dismiss as Islamic 'fundamentalist' > societies, thus resulting in what he calls an > 'anti-racist racism', which is what Katsiaficas says > as well - in this way I would say he is in fact > arguing for a coexistence with Islamic > 'fundamentalism' with the caveats endorsed by > Katsiaficas. This assumes that what is *identified* as "fundamentalism" is actually something else - perhaps more tolerant than our own belief systems. At times, it appears that the arguments is that there is, in *fact*, no fundamentalism within Islam to coexist with. But it also assumes a number of things about what is objectionable about fundamentalism. I'm not sure "tolerance" is the most useful way to talk about what's at issue. > For a little textual support of this assertion, I > would refer you first of all to 'Welcome to the Desert > of the Real', where on page three he argues, after > critiquing a Hollywood film in which a boyfriend won't > take no for an answer from his girlfriend after asking > if she will marry him, demonstrating that it really is > not a 'choice' that it is the same thing with the > juxtaposition of democracy and fundamentalism in > contemporary world politics (whether by the State, > liberal multiculturalists or well meaning radicals): > as he argues, "is it not that, within the terms of > this choice, it is simply not possible to choose > 'fundamentalism'? What is problematic in the way the > ruling ideology imposes this choice on us is not > 'fundmantalism' but rather democracy itself, as if the > only alternative to 'fundamentalism' is the political > system of liberal parliamentary democracy". I'm guessing most "well meaning radicals" aren't holding up "liberal parliamentary democracy" as the alternative to "fundamentalism." Certainly there are probably damned few anarchists holding it up as the only "possible" choice. What Zizek claims about "ruling ideology" may or may not be true, but the situation with radicals and particularly anarchists is certainly, as the man said, more complicated than that. "Tolerance" in the "liberal" sense is as much at odds with anarchist aims as various kinds of "intolerance." But those of us here who have objected to fundamentalism are critiquing it one a rather different register. My piece from last night on options for inheriting traditions of wisdom ought to foreground the differences as i see them. > Another example from the same book would be the many > places where he almost endorses the terrorist actions > of September 11 (which I totally disagree with of > course), arguing "is not so-called fundamentalist > terror also a passion for the Real?" (p. 9) (which he > then compares to the German RAF). Perhaps "so-called fundamentalism" is a "passion for the real," but, honestly, so what? Are we going to celebrate every act of rupture, however misdirected or ill-considered? I'm willing to grant that, like many of the RAF members, many terrorists are acting from some potentially laudable impulse. An old friend of mine committed murder this last weekend, then turned himself in. The small town where i live is in the throes of confusion and denial. Neither the killer nor the victim was exemplary - just human beings, with the usual collection of virtues and flaws. Part of me understands completely how, for a moment at least, the act of taking another life becomes possible, how, perhaps, all the lines of force in one's life aim in just that direction. But then there is the inescapable waste involved in the act, an expenditure that opens no new spaces we would want to enter, and one which none of us can make without stepping over lines i suspect most anarchists feel the need to hold onto. > A few pages later he > says that like the emptiness of contemporary > capitalist society, in which we have beer without > alcohol, sweetness without sugar, sex without contact, > etc. the liberal version of multiculturalism gives us > "an experience of the Other deprived of its Otherness" > (11) - precisely the 'fundamentalism' being denounced > here as not conforming to 'our' ideals - as > Katsiaficas argues, if we really respected the > Otherness of the Other, we would be taking a rather > different approach, supporting internal struggles > within, without imposing our values as the immediate, > thoughtless, knee-jerk reaction. First, dismissing the response to fundamentalism as *necessarily* "thoughtless, knee-jerk reaction" is a bit thoughtless and jerky in its own way. Beyond that, however, there is something going on in this celebration of terrorist "otherness" that looks pretty suspect. First, there is something oddly nostalgic about this concern with *real* experience. Why should we elevate the sweetness of sugar over that of artificial sweeteners - in the realm of sweetness? Probably we can all think of reasons we are nostalgic in some of the same ways for more "natural" or "authentic" experience, but we also all know the cautions about fixing notions of the "natural" or "authentic." Now think about the argument that justifies 9/11 on the same basis as our preference for "real sugar." Ugh. I'm not sure i want to go there. Terrorists are more "authentic" than we are, sitting and killing people at our video game terminals. Are "our" soldiers "more authentic" than we are? Doesn't this all lead far away from anarchist aims and values? It's not hard to see how this stuff fits with Zizek's elevation of Lenin - and Lenin is elevated even over Marx in Zizek and Badiou - but what's in it for us? > And like Katsiaficas, Zizek argues too that Jews, > Christians and others have more often than not been > much better off the cultural umbrella of > 'fundamentalist' Islam than they have under > self-righteous 'tolerant' Western secularism, for > instance, one could point to his argument in the > conclusion of 'Weclome to the Desert of the Real' in > which he argues that "Sarajevo...had by far the > largest Jewish community in ex-Yugoslavia, and, > moreover, was the most cosmopolitan Yugoslav city, the > thriving center of cinema and rock music - why? > Precisely because it was the Muslim-dominated city, > where the Jewish and Christian presence was tolerated, > in contrast to the Christian-dominated large cities > from Jews and Muslims were purged long ago" (p. 137). But the question of what happened in Yugoslavia is not one that can be answered by recourse to categories like "Jew," "Christian," or "Muslim," or by simple recourse to greater or lesser degrees of "tolerance." One of the issues i have seen repeatedly addressed in accounts of the ethnic cleansings was the apparently sudden shift from tolerance to conflict. This is certainly one of those conflicts where "fundamentalism" or "old ethnic hatreds" have been trotted out to explain what we haven't taken the time to understand. That doesn't change the fact that a recourse to dogmatic, "fundamental" beliefs seems to have eased to the road to human catastrophe. > Earlier in the same text we find him arguing that the > reprehensible elements of Islam today are not > 'fundamentalist' at all but are, as Katsiaficas > argues, direct products of the reaction to global > capitalism as imposed by the West; Here it appears that fundamentalism is *real*, but not *traditional.* The same might be said of christian fundamentalism. It is a decidedly modern reaction to other forces. But faiths evolve, and we put ourselves in a weird place arguing, for example, that what is taught in the Madrassas is not "authentic" Islam, however much of a push it may have recieved from the CIA. There's not much point in more point-by-point commentary. There is, i think, some value in noting that there are in the world: 1) Real fundamentalists, who rely for key elements of there direction in life on what they believe are divinely inspired, inerrant doctrines or text. These may put forth principles that inspire tolerance towards others, or they may inspire holy war. What they clearly don't inspire is radical nonconformity. Coexistence with these real fundamentalists may be possible and desirable, for currently existing political formations or for anarchist societies. That won't be determined by fundamentalism per se, but by the content of the fundamentals. 2) Folks identified as "fundamentalist" because they have beliefs that appear outside the range of possibility in our own cultures. To the extent that these people do not actually espouse a recourse to fundamentals, we would certainly be doing a good thing by correcting and clarifying the mistaken perception of them as "fundamentalists." It's also probably worth noting that criteria like whether or not an act shows "a passion for the real" don't give us much useful grounds for determining our critical responses. Just as "difference" as such can't be our prime criteria for valuing things - since "differences differ" in type and implications - "passion" as a yardstick threatens to elevate "crimes of passion" and other "real," but misguided attempts to connect with the world. -shawn --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/
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