Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 11:10:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Francis N Nesbitt <fnn-AT-oitunix.oit.umass.edu>
Subject: Re: testing water





On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Ernest Stromberg wrote:

> Well, my reply was phrased as a question.  But that aside, the original 
> post claims that Thiongo's choice to write in an indigenous language 
> makes his work "lucid" how so?" Engaged" with what? and "sober" no point 
> in adding another question to this.

ngugi says he decided to write in his mother tongue 
because he wanted to communicate (engage) with the underprivileged people in 
Kenya while 
Spivak's lacanian (nightmarish) jargon reveals a desire to 
communcate/immitate the 
west and its hangers-on (for an interesting discussion 
of language and diffculty see Fanon 'the negro and language' in, i 
think, *black 
skin white mask* where he describes the agonizing lengths the immigrant
scholar goes to to sound like and even outdo the whites in their language.)


  The gist of my original claim is 
> that this post seems to believe that the complex issues engaged by Spivak 
> are frivolous and unnecessary and that one can do an end run around them 
> by speaking a lucid, sober abd by implication more transparent language 
> not cuaght up with the theoretical messiness engaged by Spivak. 


--ngugi's work in english (novels, plays, essays) is also 
written in a style that is accessible (lucid) 
-a bad/obscure style should not be confused with profoundness --compare for 
instance the work of said with that of spivak but that is another story
--as to whether obsession with the latest trend in 
Oedipal theory is "necessary"?...It certainly pays well and keeps one off 
the muddy, uncouth streets.

peace  



> 
> On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Francis N Nesbitt wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > who said anything about "authenticity" "influence" or "contamination"?  
> > the post compared out the two writers' language, audience and poltical 
> > choices. 
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Ernest Stromberg wrote:
> > 
> > > Wow!  This is an extreme simplification of both the work of Ngugi Thiongo
> > > and Gayatri Spivak. So Thiongo speaks in transparent and authentic voice 
> > > whose meaning is unmediated by the influence/contamination while Spivak 
> > > by her engagement with European epistemologies "keeps the 
> > > [pure/authentic] natives in their place?  Is this the crux of this post?
> > > Ernest
> > >  On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Francis N 
> > > Nesbitt wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Sun, 21 Jan 1996, NADEEM OMAR wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Seems that people are intersted and one can plunge to swim or sink.
> > > > > 
> > > > > To open up the problematic, in what ways an academic post colonial 
> > > > > critic can speak about post/neo-colonialism. To be specific, lets 
> > > > > refer to Edward Said (of Orientalism), Homi K Bhaba(of Location of 
> > > > > Culures, henceforth LOC ) and GC Spivak ( of Post Colonial Critic & 
> > > > > The Other worlds, hf.PCC & TOW).[these limits are not to restrict the 
> > > > > scope of discussion but to express my breadth of information].She can 
> > > > > talk in Oppositional or in Ambivalent terms. She can either trace her 
> > > > > geneology to Focault/Nietsche or to Derrida/Lacan. But can she ever 
> > > > > inscribe her geneology outside the space of First World Theory??
> > > > 
> > > > intersting discussion, including the slur from the gringa, 
> > > > however i would like to point out that neo-colonialism 
> > > > and post-colonialism are two very different theories. 
> > > > Neo-colonialism, a term 
> > > > created by Kwame Nkrumah in his brilliant trilogy "Neo-Colonialism: The 
> > > > Last Stage of Imperialism" is mostly a theory that developed in africa by 
> > > > thinkers like amilcar cabral 'return to the source', chinweizu "the west 
> > > > and the rest" and Ngugi wa Thiongo "decolonizing the mind" etc  
> > > > there are serious differences in perspetive between these two 
> > > > theories.
> > > > If we were to compare, for example, the work of 
> > > > Ngugi wa Thiongo to that of Gatyari Spivak who both teach in the 
> > > > united states, but for different reasons --ngugi is in exile, a 
> > > > political refugee, after spending 10 years in detention for 
> > > > cultural activism; while Spivak is an economic migrant, here 
> > > > because life in america is more comfortable, there is a drastic 
> > > > difference. 
> > > > Ngugi's work is lucid, sober and engaged; Spivak's is 
> > > > pretentious, frivolous, and abstract. After publising a series of novels 
> > > > in English, Ngugi decides to write in his mother tongue so that he can 
> > > > communicate with the workers and peasants in kenya; spivak on the other 
> > > > hand continues to engage the latest intellectual fashions out of paris in 
> > > > a languge that is designed to keep the "natives" in their place.
> > > > The politics of 
> > > > these two individuals, i think, are a lesson in the dangers of 
> > > > homogenizing the work of "third world' thinkers.
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >      --- from list postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >      --- from list postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
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> > > 
> > 
> > 
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> > 
> 
> 
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> 


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