File spoon-archives/postcolonial.archive/postcolonial_2001/postcolonial.0110, message 37


Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 12:02:21 -0400
Subject: Re: arundhati roy in the guardian
From: "bob brown" <vacirca-AT-charm.net>


union carbide's true intention was to make money EVEN IF it killed people,
in particular indian people, actually knowing that they would people if that
is not criminal intent  i don't what is!  bob brown
--
"solidarity means sharing the same risks" - Che
( la solidarita significa correre gli stessi rischi)

----------
>From: Jaclyn Rosebrook-Collignon <jaclynr-AT-free.fr>
>To: postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>Subject: Re: arundhati roy in the guardian
>Date: Tue, Oct 2, 2001, 5:33 AM
>

> Malcolm,
> Excellent quote; which book does it appear in ?
> "Mistrust those in whom the urge to punish is strong." - Nietzsche
> Thanks!
> Jaclyn
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Malcolm Thompson" <mac_thompson-AT-hotmail.com>
> To: <postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 1:58 AM
> Subject: Re: arundhati roy in the guardian
>
>
>> i don't know about all this. please bear with me. i promise that this post
>> is less disgraceful than my previous ones.
>>
>> >No Margaret, I'm afraid Malini is right. The issue is of intention. Did
>> >Union Carbide intend to kill the people who lived around its plant in
>> >Bhopal? No.
>>
>> does this mean they're any less dead?
>>
>> >Did the extremists who hijacked the plane and crashed it into
>> >the WTC intend to kill civilians? Yes.
>>
>> sure, but we don't know how many. how can one's intention serve to
> mitigate
>> responsibility for death? as margaret notes, this is a juridical procedure
>> in the US (and lots of other countries), used in the calculus of
> punishment
>> by the courts. to say that there is no other criteria for the calculating
> of
>> culpability is to concede a monopoly of justice to some highly specific
>> historical system of truth-production. we are not, currently, in a court
> of
>> law, so why do we have to limit ourselves to juridical procedure?
>>
>> (an aside: is it possible to invoke the word 'civilians' without the word
>> 'innocent' hovering about in the background?)
>>
>> >And who valued the lives of Indians
>> >as cheaper? Was it the pesticide expert you cite alone, or also the
> Indian
>> >Government, which filed a brief before Judge Keenan, and argued that the
>> >case against UCC must be heard in an Indian court, which was competent to
>> >handle the case?
>>
>> i don't really see the relevance of this. are you saying that union
> carbide
>> is somehow absolved because *even the indian gov't devalued those people's
>> lives*? i don't see why national governments should be seen to have any
> more
>> fiduciary interest in the lives of poor people than transnationals. the
>> state is not the guardian of poor people against capital. the fact that
>> *everybody* thinks some crazy thing doesn't absolve any one of those
> people
>> for thinking it.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> >But that doesn't mean that UCC wants to kill those
>> >people.
>>
>> again, they're still dead.
>>
>> >That distinction is at the heart of this issue, which Ms. Roy skilfully
>> >chooses to ignore.
>>
>> as you've probably guessed, i don't actually see this as the 'heart' of
> the
>> issue. since you've invoked one principle of american jurisprudence (the
>> necessity of malicious intent), allow me to invoke another: ignorance of
> the
>> law is no excuse.
>>
>> the necessity of intent necessarily involves the inscription of ignorance
> as
>> a mitigating factor. we forget what eve sedgwick pointed out: that people
>> receive careful instruction in what to be ignorant of. ignorance is not
> just
>> a neutral 'lack' of knowledge. it is itself produced and implicated in
>> strategies of power.
>>
>> >A great contemporary Gujarati poet, Sitanshu
>> >Yashaschandra, had said once: "Aag lage tyaare kuvo khodvanu kam kavi nu
>> >nathi", meaning, when there's a fire, it is not the job of a poet to
> start
>> >digging a well.
>>
>> all that being said, this is still a great quote :)
>>
>> mlcm
>>
>> "Mistrust those in whom the urge to punish is strong." - Nietzsche
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
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>
>
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