Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 12:02:21 -0400 Subject: Re: arundhati roy in the guardian From: "bob brown" <vacirca-AT-charm.net> union carbide's true intention was to make money EVEN IF it killed people, in particular indian people, actually knowing that they would people if that is not criminal intent i don't what is! bob brown -- "solidarity means sharing the same risks" - Che ( la solidarita significa correre gli stessi rischi) ---------- >From: Jaclyn Rosebrook-Collignon <jaclynr-AT-free.fr> >To: postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu >Subject: Re: arundhati roy in the guardian >Date: Tue, Oct 2, 2001, 5:33 AM > > Malcolm, > Excellent quote; which book does it appear in ? > "Mistrust those in whom the urge to punish is strong." - Nietzsche > Thanks! > Jaclyn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Malcolm Thompson" <mac_thompson-AT-hotmail.com> > To: <postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu> > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 1:58 AM > Subject: Re: arundhati roy in the guardian > > >> i don't know about all this. please bear with me. i promise that this post >> is less disgraceful than my previous ones. >> >> >No Margaret, I'm afraid Malini is right. The issue is of intention. Did >> >Union Carbide intend to kill the people who lived around its plant in >> >Bhopal? No. >> >> does this mean they're any less dead? >> >> >Did the extremists who hijacked the plane and crashed it into >> >the WTC intend to kill civilians? Yes. >> >> sure, but we don't know how many. how can one's intention serve to > mitigate >> responsibility for death? as margaret notes, this is a juridical procedure >> in the US (and lots of other countries), used in the calculus of > punishment >> by the courts. to say that there is no other criteria for the calculating > of >> culpability is to concede a monopoly of justice to some highly specific >> historical system of truth-production. we are not, currently, in a court > of >> law, so why do we have to limit ourselves to juridical procedure? >> >> (an aside: is it possible to invoke the word 'civilians' without the word >> 'innocent' hovering about in the background?) >> >> >And who valued the lives of Indians >> >as cheaper? Was it the pesticide expert you cite alone, or also the > Indian >> >Government, which filed a brief before Judge Keenan, and argued that the >> >case against UCC must be heard in an Indian court, which was competent to >> >handle the case? >> >> i don't really see the relevance of this. are you saying that union > carbide >> is somehow absolved because *even the indian gov't devalued those people's >> lives*? i don't see why national governments should be seen to have any > more >> fiduciary interest in the lives of poor people than transnationals. the >> state is not the guardian of poor people against capital. the fact that >> *everybody* thinks some crazy thing doesn't absolve any one of those > people >> for thinking it. >> >> <snip> >> >> >But that doesn't mean that UCC wants to kill those >> >people. >> >> again, they're still dead. >> >> >That distinction is at the heart of this issue, which Ms. Roy skilfully >> >chooses to ignore. >> >> as you've probably guessed, i don't actually see this as the 'heart' of > the >> issue. since you've invoked one principle of american jurisprudence (the >> necessity of malicious intent), allow me to invoke another: ignorance of > the >> law is no excuse. >> >> the necessity of intent necessarily involves the inscription of ignorance > as >> a mitigating factor. we forget what eve sedgwick pointed out: that people >> receive careful instruction in what to be ignorant of. ignorance is not > just >> a neutral 'lack' of knowledge. it is itself produced and implicated in >> strategies of power. >> >> >A great contemporary Gujarati poet, Sitanshu >> >Yashaschandra, had said once: "Aag lage tyaare kuvo khodvanu kam kavi nu >> >nathi", meaning, when there's a fire, it is not the job of a poet to > start >> >digging a well. >> >> all that being said, this is still a great quote :) >> >> mlcm >> >> "Mistrust those in whom the urge to punish is strong." - Nietzsche >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp >> >> >> >> --- from list postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- >> > > > > --- from list postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- > --- from list postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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