Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 13:30:11 -0400 From: Lesk Andrew <leska-AT-MAGELLAN.UMontreal.CA> Subject: wolf's interesting post Glad to hear it wolf....maybe you can begin by apologizing to those on the Left whose arguments you oh so casually dismissed earlier, in your statement about Roy: "a little muddled and simplistic in the usual left-wing way." Happy to know we're on the same page. Andrew On Tue, 2 Oct 2001, Wolf Factory wrote: > I have been engaged in an e-mail debate with Richard > Dawkins since he wrote his article 'Religions' > misguided missiles (Guardian 15 Sep 2001). He has > asked me to distribute the letter below amongst > Muslim friends. I am posting it on this listing > because there are some amongst you of Islamic/Arabic > background who might want to comment on it. I also > think the message has broader relevance to > post-colonialists who might want to comment about > the validity of such a calling, its usefulnessetc. > > My own view differs from Dawkins. I basically think in > focusing so much on religion he is chasing after the > tail of the snake and not its head. However, I still > think the view he holds ought to be debated and > analyzed. I hope we can keep this thread clean and > free of personal insults. > > W.F. > > A Call to the Muslims of the World from a Group of > Freethinkers and Humanists of Muslim Origins . > > Dear friends, > > The tragic incidents of September 11 have shocked the > world. It is unthinkable that anyone could be so full > of hate as to commit such heinous acts and kill so > many innocent people. We people of Muslim origin are > as much shaken as the rest of the world and yet we > find ourselves looked upon with suspicion and distrust > by our neighbours and fellow citizens. We want to cry > out and tell the world that we are not terrorists, and > that those who perpetrate such despicable acts are > murderers and not part of us. But, in reality, because > of our Muslim origins we just cannot erase the "stigma > of Islamic Terrorism" from our identity! > > What most Muslims will say: > > "Islam would never support the killing of innocent > people. Allah of the Holy Quran never advocated > killings. This is all the work of a few misguided > individuals at the fringes of society. The real Islam > is sanctified from violence. We denounce all violence. > Islam means peace. Islam means tolerance." > > What knowledgeable Muslims should say: > > That is what most Muslims think, but is it true? Does > Islam really preach peace, tolerance and > non-violence? The Muslims who perpetrate these crimes > think differently. They believe that what they do is > Jihad (holy war). They say that killing unbelievers is > mandatory for every Muslim. They do not kill because > they wish to break the laws of Islam but because they > think this is what true Muslims should do. Those who > blow-up their own bodies to kill more innocent people > do so because they think they will be rewarded in > Paradise. They hope to be blessed by Allah, eat > celestial food, drink pure wine and enjoy the company > of divine consorts. Are they completely misguided? > Where did they get this distorted idea? How did they > come to believe that killing innocent people pleases > God? Or is it that we are misguided? Does really Islam > preach violence? Does it call upon its believers to > kill non-believers? We denounce those who commit acts > of violence and call them extremists. But are they > really extremists or are they following what the holy > book, the Quran tells them to do? What does the > Quran teach? Have we read the Quran? Do we know what > kind of teachings are there? Let us go through some of > them and take a closer look at what Allah says. > > What the Quran Teaches Us: > > We have used the most widely available English text of > the Quran and readers > are welcome to verify our quotes from the holy book. > Please have an open mind and read through these verses > again and again. The following quotes are taken from > the most trusted Yusufalis translation of the Quran. > > > The Quran tells us: > "not to make friendship with Jews and Christians" > (5:51), > "kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (2:191), > > "murder them and treat them harshly" (9:123), > "fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer > them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" > (9:5). > The Quran demands that we fight the unbelievers, and > promises "If there are twenty > amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a > hundred, you will vanquish > a thousand of them" (8:65). > > Allah and his messenger want us to fight the > Christians and the Jews "until they pay the Jizya [a > penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic > rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves > subdued" (9:29). > Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable > to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations > with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find > ourselves strong enough to do so (9:3). > Our God tells us to "fight the unbelievers" and "He > will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame > and help us (to victory) over them" (9:14). > > The Quran takes away the freedom of belief from all > humanity and relegates > those who disbelieve in Islam to hell (5:10), > calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (9:28), > > and orders its followers to fight the unbelievers > until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193). > It says that the "non-believers will go to hell and > will drink boiling water" (14:17). > It asks the Muslims to "slay or crucify or cut the > hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be > expelled from the land with disgrace and that they > shall have a great punishment in world hereafter" > (5:34). > And tells us that "for them (the unbelievers) garments > of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over > their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their > bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be > punished with hooked iron rods" (22:19-22) > and that they not only will have "disgrace in this > life, but on the Day of Judgment He shall make them > taste the Penalty of burning (Fire)" (22:9). > The Quran says that "those who invoke a god other > than Allah not only should meet punishment in this > world but the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be > doubled to them, and they will dwell therein in > ignominy" (25:68). > For those who "believe not in Allah and His Messenger, > He has prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing > Fire!" (48:13). > Although we are asked to be compassionate amongst each > other, we have to be "harsh with unbelievers", our > Christian, Jewish and Atheist neighbours and > colleagues (48:29). > As for him who does not believe in Islam, the Prophet > announces with a "stern command": "Seize ye him, and > bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. > Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length > is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe > in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the > feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here > this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption > from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but > those in sin." > (69:30-37) > The Quran prohibits a Muslim from befriending a > non-believer even if that non-believer is the father > or the brother of that Muslim (9:23), (3:28). > Our holy book asks us to be disobedient towards the > disbelievers and their governments and strive against > the unbelievers with great endeavour" (25:52) > and be stern with them because they belong to Hell > (66:9). > The holy Prophet prescribes fighting for us and tells > us that "it is good for us even if we dislike it" > (2:216). > Then he advises us to "strike off the heads of the > disbelievers"; and after making a "wide slaughter > among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives" > (47:4). > Our God has promised to "instil terror into the hearts > of the unbelievers" and has ordered us to "smite > above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off > them" (8:12). He also assures us that when we kill in > his name "it is not us who slay them but Allah, in > order that He might test the Believers by a gracious > trial from Himself" (8:17). > He orders us "to strike terror into the hearts of the > enemies" (8:60). > He has made the Jihad mandatory and warns us that > "Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us > with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place" > (9:39). > Allah speaks to our Holy Prophet and says "O Prophet! > strive hard against the unbelievers and the > hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is > Hell - an evil refuge indeed" (9:73). > > He promises us that in the fight for His cause whether > we slay or are slain we return to the garden of > Paradise (9:111). > In Paradise he will "wed us with Houris (celestial > virgins) pure beautiful ones" (56:54), > and unite us with large-eyed beautiful ones while we > recline on our thrones set in lines (56:20). > There we are promised to eat and drink pleasantly for > what we did (56:19). > He also promises "boys like hidden pearls" (56:24) > and "youth never altering in age like scattered > pearls" (for those who have paedophiliac inclinations) > (76:19). > As you see, Allah has promised all sorts or rewards, > gluttony and unlimited sex to Muslim men who kill > unbelievers in his name. We will be admitted to > Paradise where we shall find "goodly things, beautiful > ones, pure ones confined to the pavilions that man has > not touched them before nor jinni" (56:67-71). > > In the West we enjoy freedom of belief but we are not > supposed to give such freedom to anyone else because > it is written "If anyone desires a religion other than > Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted > of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks > of those who have lost (All spiritual good) (3:85). > And He orders us to fight them on until there is no > more tumult and faith in Allah is practiced everywhere > (8:39). > > As for women the book of Allah says that they are > inferior to men and their husbands have the right to > scourge them if they are found disobedient (4:34). > It advises to "take a green branch and beat your > wife", because a green branch is more flexible and > hurts more. (38:44). > It teaches that women will go to hell if they are > disobedient to their husbands (66:10). It maintains > that men have an advantage over the women (2:228). > It not only denies the womens equal right to their > inheritance (4:11-12), > it also regards them as imbeciles and decrees that > their witness is not admissible in the courts of law > (2:282). > This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her > rapist unless she can produce a male witness. Our Holy > Prophet allows us to marry up to four wives and he > licensed us to sleep with our slave maids and as many > captive women as we may have (4:3) even if those > women are already married. He himself did just that. > This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues another > nation, they call them kafir and allow themselves to > rape their women. Pakistani soldiers allegedly raped > up to 250,000 Bengali women in 1971 after they > massacred 3,000,000 unarmed civilians when their > religious leader decreed that Bangladeshis are > un-Islamic. This is why the prison guards in Islamic > regime of Iran rape the women that in their opinion > are apostates prior to killing them, as they believe a > virgin will not go to Hell. > > Dear fellow Muslims: > > Is this the Islam you believe in? Is this your Most > Merciful, Most Compassionate Allah whom you worship > daily? Could Allah incite you to kill other peoples? > Please understand that there is no terrorist gene - > but there could be a terrorist mindset. That mindset > finds its most fertile ground in the tenets of Islam. > Denying it, and presenting Islam to the lay public as > a religion of peace similar to Buddhism, is to > suppress the truth. The history of Islam between the > 7th and 14th centuries is riddled with violence, > fratricide and wars of aggression, starting right from > the death of the Prophet and during the so-called > pure or orthodox caliphate. And Muhammad himself > hoisted the standard of killing, looting, massacres > and bloodshed. How can we deny the entire history? The > behaviour of our Holy Prophet as recorded in authentic > Islamic sources is quite questionable from a modern > viewpoint. The Prophet was a charismatic man but he > had few virtues. Imitating him in all aspects of life > (following the Sunnah) is both impossible and > dangerous in the 21st century. Why are we so > helplessly in denial over this simple issue? > > When the Prophet was in Mecca and he was still not > powerful enough he called for tolerance. He said "To > you be your religion, and to me my religion" (109:6). > This famous quote is often misused to prove that the > general principle of Quran is tolerance. He advised > his follower to speak good to their enemies (2: 83), > exhorted them to be patient (20:103) and said that > "there is no compulsion in religion" (2:256). > But that all changed drastically when he came to > power. Then killing and slaying unbelievers with > harshness and without mercy was justified in > innumerable verses. The verses quoted to prove Islams > tolerance ignore many other verses that bear no trace > of tolerance or forgiveness. Where is tolerance in > this well-known verse > "Alarzu Lillah, Walhukmu Lillah." (The Earth belongs > to Allah and thus only Allahs rule should prevail all > over the earth.). > > Is it normal that a book revealed by God should have > so many serious contradictions? > The Prophet himself set the example of unleashing > violence by invading the Jewish settlements, breaking > treaties he had signed with them and banishing some of > them after confiscating their belongings, massacring > others and taking their wives and children as slaves. > He inspected the youngsters and massacred all those > who had pubic hair along with the men. Those who were > younger he kept as slaves. He distributed the women > captured in his raids among his soldiers keeping the > prettiest for himself (33:50). He made sexual advances > on Safiyah, a Jewish girl on the same day he captured > her town Kheibar and killed her father, her husband > and many of her relatives. Reyhana was another Jewish > girl of Bani Quriza whom he used as a sex slave after > killing all her male relatives. In the last ten years > of his life he accumulated two scores of wives, > concubines and sex slaves including the 9 year old > Ayesha. These are not stories but records from > authentic Islamic history and the Hadiths. It can be > argued that this kind of behaviour was not unknown or > unusual for the conquerors and leaders of the > mediaeval world but these are not the activities > befitting of a peaceful saint and certainly not > someone who claimed to be the Mercy of God for all > creation. There were known assassinations of > adversaries during the Prophets time, which he had > knowledge of and had supported. Among them there was a > 120 year old man, Abu Afak whose only crime was to > compose a lyric satirical of the Prophet. (by Ibn > Sad Kitab al Tabaqat al Kabir, Volume 2, page 32) > Then when a poetess, a mother of 5 small children > Asma Bint Marwan wrote a poetry cursing the Arabs > for letting Muhammad assassinate an old man, our Holy > Prophet ordered her to be assassinated too in the > middle of the night while her youngest child was > suckling from her breast. (Sirat Rasul Allah (A. > Guillaumes translation "The Life of Muhammad") page > 675, 676). > > The Prophet did develop a Robin Hood image that > justified raiding merchant caravans attacking cities > and towns, killing people and looting their belongings > in the name of social justice. Usama Bin Laden is also > trying to create the same image. But Robin Hood didnt > claim to be a prophet or a pacifist nor did he care > for apologist arguments. He did not massacre innocent > people indiscriminately nor did he profit by reducing > free people to slaves and then trading them. > > With the known and documented violent legacy of Islam, > how can we suddenly rediscover it as a religion of > peace in the free world in the 21st century? Isnt > this the perpetuation of a lie by a few ambitious > leaders in order to gain political control of the huge > and ignorant Muslim population? They are creating a > polished version of Islam by completely ignoring > history. They are propagating the same old dogma for > simple believing people in a crisp new modern package. > Their aim: to gain political power in todays > high-tension world. They want to use the > confrontational power of the original Islam to > catalyse new conflicts and control new circles of > power. > > Dear conscientious Muslims, please question > yourselves. Isnt this compulsive following of a man > who lived 1400 years ago leading us to doom in a > changing world? Do the followers of any other religion > follow one man in such an all-encompassing way? Who > are we deceiving, them or ourselves? Dear brothers and > sisters, see how our Umma (people) has sunk into > poverty and how it lags behind the rest of the world. > Isnt it because we are following a religion that is > outdated and impractical? In this crucial moment of > history, when a great catastrophe has befallen us and > a much bigger one is lying ahead, should not we wake > up from our 1400 years of slumber and see where things > have gone wrong? > > Hatred has filled the air and the world is bracing > itself for its doomsday. Should we not ask ourselves > whether we have contributed, wittingly or unwittingly, > to this tragedy and whether we can stop the great > disaster from happening? > > Unfortunately the answer to the first question is yes. > Yes we have contributed to the rise of fundamentalism > by merely claiming Islam is a religion of peace, by > simply being a Muslim and by saying our shahada > (testimony that Allah is the only God and Muhammad is > his messenger). By our shahada we have recognized > Muhammad as a true messenger of God and his book as > the words of God. But as you saw above those words are > anything but from God. They call for killing, they are > prescriptions for hate and they foment intolerance. > And when the ignorant among us read those hate-laden > verses, they act on them and the result is the > infamous September 11, human bombs in Israel, > massacres in East Timor and Bangladesh, kidnappings > and killings in the Philippines, slavery in the Sudan, > honour killings in Pakistan and Jordan, torture in > Iran, stoning and maiming in Afghanistan and Iran, > violence in Algeria, terrorism in Palestine and misery > and death in every Islamic country. We are responsible > because we endorse Islam and hail it as a religion of > God. And we are as guilty as those who put into > practice what the Quran preaches - and ironically we > are the main victims too. If we are not terrorists, if > we love peace, if we cried with the rest of the word > for what happened in New York, then why are we > supporting the Quran that preaches killing, that > advocates holy war, that calls for the murder of > non-Muslims? It is not the extremists who have > misunderstood Islam. They do literally what the Quran > asks > them to do. It is we who misunderstand Islam. We are > the ones who are confused. We are the ones who wrongly > assume that Islam is the religion of peace. Islam is > not a religion of peace. In its so-called "pure" form > it can very well be interpreted as a doctrine of hate. > Terrorists are doing just that and we the intellectual > apologists of Islam are justifying it. We can stop > this madness. Yes, we can avert the disaster that is > hovering over our heads. Yes, we can denounce the > doctrines that promote hate. Yes, we can embrace the > rest of humanity with love. Yes, we can become part of > a united > world, members of one human family, flowers of one > garden. We can dump the claim of infallibility of our > Book, and the questionable legacy of our Prophet. > > Dear friends, there is no time to waste. Let us put an > end to this lie. Let us not fool ourselves. Islam is > not a religion of peace, of tolerance, of equality or > of unity of humankind. Let us read the Quran. Let us > face the truth even if it is painful. As long as we > keep this lie alive, as long as we hide our head in > the sands of Arabia we are feeding terrorism. As long > as you and I keep calling Quran the unchangeable book > of God, we cannot blame those who follow the teachings > therein. As long as we pay our Khums and Zakat our > money goes to promote Islamic expansionism and that > means terrorism, Jihad and war. Islam divides the > world in two. Darul Harb (land of war) and Darul Islam > (land of Islam). Darul Harb is the land of the > infidels, Muslims are required to infiltrate those > lands, proselytise and procreate until their numbers > increase and then start the war and fight and kill the > people and impose the religion of Islam on them and > convert that land into Darul Islam. In all fairness we > denounce this betrayal. This is abuse of the trust. > How can we make war in the countries that have > sheltered us? How can we kill those who have > befriended us? Yet willingly or unwillingly we have > become pawns in this Islamic Imperialism. Let us see > what great Islamic scholars have had to say in this > respect. > > Dr. M. Khan the translator of Sahih Bukhari and the > Quran into English wrote: "Allah revealed in Sura > Baraat (Repentance, IX) the order to discard (all) > obligations (covenants, etc), and commanded the > Muslims to fight against all the Pagans as well as > against the people of the Scriptures (Jews and > Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they > pay the Jizia (a tax levied on the Jews and > Christians) with willing submission and feel > themselves subdued (as it is revealed in 9:29). So the > Muslims were not permitted to abandon "the fighting" > against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to > reconcile with them and to suspend hostilities against > them for an unlimited period while they are strong and > have the ability to fight against them. So at first > "the fighting" was forbidden, then it was permitted, > and after that it was made obligatory" [Introduction > to English translation of Sahih Bukhari, p.xxiv.] > > Dr. Sobhy as-Saleh, a contemporary Islamic academician > quoted Imam Suyuti > the author of Itqan Fi Ulum al- Quran who wrote: > "The command to fight the infidels was delayed until > the Muslims become strong, but when they were weak > they were commanded to endure and be patient". [ Sobhy > as_Saleh, Mabaheth Fi Ulum al- Quran, Dar al-Ilm > Lel-Malayeen, Beirut, 1983, p. > 269.] > > Dr. Sobhy, in a footnote, commends the opinion of a > scholar named Zarkashi who said: > "Allah the most high and wise revealed to Mohammad in > his weak condition what suited the situation, because > of his mercy to him and his followers. For if He gave > them the command to fight while they were weak it > would have been embarrassing and most difficult, but > when the most high made Islam victorious He commanded > him with what suited the situation, that is asking the > people of the Book to become Muslims or to pay the > levied tax, and the infidels to become Muslims or face > death. These two options, to fight or to have peace > return according to the strength or the weakness of > the Muslims." [ibid p. 270] > > Other Islamic scholars (Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi, Gafar > ar-Razi, Rabi Ibn > Ons, Abil-Aliyah, Abd ar-Rahman Ibn Zayd Ibn > Aslam, etc.) agree that > the verse "Slay the idolaters wherever you find them" > (9:5) cancelled > those few earlier verses that called for tolerance in > the Quran and were revealed > when Islam was weak. Can you still say that Islam is > the religion of peace? > > We propose a solution. > > We know too well that it is not easy to denounce our > faith because it means denouncing a part of ourselves. > We are a group of freethinkers and humanists with > Islamic roots. Discovering the truth and leaving the > religion of our fathers and forefathers was a painful > experience. But after learning what Islam stands for > we had no choice but to leave it. After becoming > familiar with the Quran the choice became clear: It > is either Islam or humanity. If Islam thrives, then > humanity will die. We decided to side with humanity. > Culturally we are still Muslims but we no longer > believe in Islam as the true religion of God. We are > humanists. We love humanity. We work for the unity of > humankind. We work for equality between men and women. > We strive for the secularisation of Islamic countries, > for democracy and freedom of thought, belief and > expression. We decided to live no longer in > self-deception but to embrace humanity, and to enter > into the new millennium hand in hand with people of > other cultures and beliefs in amity and in peace. > > We denounce the violence that is eulogized in the > Quran as holy war (Jihad). We > condemn killing in the name of God. We believe in the > sanctity of human life, not > in the inviolability of beliefs and religions. We > invite you to join us and the rest of humanity and > become part of the family of humankind - in love, > camaraderie and peace. > > > > > > ====> "All the wolves in the wolf factory paused at noon, > for a moment of silence." > ........from laughing Gravy by John Ashbery. > --------------------------------------------------------- > Looking for something good and original to read? > Check out: http://www.mesopotamia.free-online.co.uk > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Listen to your Yahoo! 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