File spoon-archives/postcolonial.archive/postcolonial_2001/postcolonial.0110, message 557


Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 13:10:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Not your usual conspiracy theory
From: "bob brown" <vacirca-AT-charm.net>


> THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--MS_Mac_OE_3087033038_559236_MIME_Part

steph, a ruling class that is capable of Hiroshima and vietnam is capable 
ethically of 9-11.  there is a great deal of credible historical evidence
that FDR knew about Pearl Harbor before it happened and let it happen to
break the back of isolationist sentiment in the US against entering
wwII. whether this what happened with 9-11 i don't know. but was it
possible, absolutely yes.the circumstantial evidence certainly points that
way,the speed with which the new line on terrorism came out and the rapid
decision to overthrow the Taliban smell of pre 9-11 planning. the speed with
which they identified the hijackers cells, had to mean they had them under
surveillance and infiltrated, which means they had to know their plans in
general form. i have to agree with stan and richard,the ruling group in the
US does actually operate this cynically and coldbloodedly when its deepest
interests are at stake.  bob brown
--
"solidarity means sharing the same risks" - Che
( la solidarita significa correre gli stessi rischi)

----------
From: Steph Greaves <sng-AT-prologic.net>
To: postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
Subject: Re: Not your usual conspiracy theory
Date: Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 5:58 AM


Hi,

I'm having some trouble believing that the US President/cabinet/FBI had
prior knowledge of  what was planned Sept 11, and that when it all began,
they let it unfold so as to have justification for military operations in
Afghanistan.

It doesn't seem credible to me that such a large group of people would
conspire together like this, and intentionally sacrifice the lives of
thousands of people, the prestige of US intelligence, and a couple of really
important buildings for oil (even lots of it).

I found the article interesting, but genuinely can't get past this - is my
attitude naive?

Steph.

At 22:14 26/10/01 +1300, you wrote:
Yo laohu -

I was passing on to this list an article by Stan Goff that I thought was
worth considering.  Please do not credit me with his words -  although I
must say I find most of what he says to be convincing, most especially the
claim that the US is looking for more sources of fossil fuels, and would not
mind waging another war to procure such.

What you say below only strengthens Goff's claim.  Most of the remaining oil
is *not* in the Middle East or in the Gulf region.  Much of it is in Russia
and around the Black Sea.  More is in central Asia.  Hello?  Notice the
recent sudden change in relations between the US and Russia?  Notice how
both are strongly allied in the effort to take control of central Asia?

Afghanistan is in central Asia and not in the Middle East.  Look at a map.

"Castrated by our own environmentalists"??  You agree with this?  A telling
fear ...

MT
This comment overstates its case rather irresponsibly in my view -- as if
the U.S. knew all along that 9-11 was coming and it would be just what was
needed to give it a legitimizing 'casus belli' for operations long since
planned against that oil-rich country of Afghanistan.  Seems a bit paranoid
even for this list.

In fact, the world probably has more oil than it knows what to do with, and
most of it is NOT in the Middle East. Incidentally, have you been paying
more or less for gas recently?


"Paul Michael Wihbey, a scholar at the Washington, D.C.-based Institute for
Advanced Strategic and Political Studies, argues that the oil weapon is no
weapon at all. Not anymore. The world is awash in oil. It is estimated that
Saudi Arabia has 270 billion barrels in oil reserves. Canada and Venezuela
each have more than a trillion. (Much of that is heavy oil, but modern
techniques can refine it.) Russia and the North Sea produce 7 million
barrels a day each, compared with Saudi Arabia's 8 million. And the United
States imports as much from the Guinea Gulf in Africa as from Saudi Arabia.
There are massive oil deposits under the Grand Banks in Canada, in Mexico
and in Indonesia, to say nothing of off-shore supplies in Florida and
California, as well as the north slope of Alaska.

The United States can very easily do without Middle East oil, which accounts
for 25 percent of total oil imports (provided we are not castrated by our
own environmentalists)."

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/monacharen/mc20011026.shtml
http://www.tzemach.org/fyi/docs/winston/oct31-98.htm

http://www.iea.org/g8/world/oilsup.htm (a more reserved view re an oil glut)


Good morning to all!

e b holtsmark - aka jack     =E4ran f=F6rst och fr=E4mst
laohu-AT-avalon.net <mailto:laohu-AT-avalon.net>               esse quam videri
                                         aien aristeuein

_____________________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet
delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further
information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call
Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service.

_____________________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet
delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further
information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call
Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service.


--MS_Mac_OE_3087033038_559236_MIME_Part

HTML VERSION:

Re: Not your usual conspiracy theory steph, a ruling class that is capable of Hiroshima and vietnam is capable ethically of 9-11.  there is a great deal of credible historical evidence that FDR knew about Pearl Harbor before it happened and let it happen to break the back of isolationist sentiment in the US against entering     wwII. whether this what happened with 9-11 i don't know. but was it possible, absolutely yes.the circumstantial evidence certainly points that way,the speed with which the new line on terrorism came out and the rapid decision to overthrow the Taliban smell of pre 9-11 planning. the speed with which they identified the hijackers cells, had to mean they had them under surveillance and infiltrated, which means they had to know their plans in general form. i have to agree with stan and richard,the ruling group in the US does actually operate this cynically and coldbloodedly when its deepest interests are at stake.  bob brown
--
"solidarity means sharing the same risks" - Che
( la solidarita significa correre gli stessi rischi)

----------
From: Steph Greaves <sng-AT-prologic.net>
To: postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
Subject: Re: Not your usual conspiracy theory
Date: Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 5:58 AM


Hi,

I'm having some trouble believing that the US President/cabinet/FBI had prior knowledge of  what was planned Sept 11, and that when it all began, they let it unfold so as to have justification for military operations in Afghanistan.

It doesn't seem credible to me that such a large group of people would conspire together like this, and intentionally sacrifice the lives of thousands of people, the prestige of US intelligence, and a couple of really important buildings for oil (even lots of it).

I found the article interesting, but genuinely can't get past this - is my attitude naive?

Steph.

At 22:14 26/10/01 +1300, you wrote:
Yo laohu -
 
I was passing on to this list an article by Stan Goff that I thought was worth considering.  Please do not credit me with his words -  although I must say I find most of what he says to be convincing, most especially the claim that the US is looking for more sources of fossil fuels, and would not mind waging another war to procure such.
 
What you say below only strengthens Goff's claim.  Most of the remaining oil is *not* in the Middle East or in the Gulf region.  Much of it is in Russia and around the Black Sea.  More is in central Asia.  Hello?  Notice the recent sudden change in relations between the US and Russia?  Notice how both are strongly allied in the effort to take control of central Asia?
 
Afghanistan is in central Asia and not in the Middle East.  Look at a map.
 
"Castrated by our own environmentalists"??  You agree with this?  A telling fear ...
 
MT
This comment overstates its case rather irresponsibly in my view -- as if the U.S. knew all along that 9-11 was coming and it would be just what was needed to give it a legitimizing 'casus belli' for operations long since planned against that oil-rich country of Afghanistan.  Seems a bit paranoid even for this list.
 
In fact, the world probably has more oil than it knows what to do with, and most of it is NOT in the Middle East. Incidentally, have you been paying more or less for gas recently?
 

"Paul Michael Wihbey, a scholar at the Washington, D.C.-based Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies, argues that the oil weapon is no weapon at all. Not anymore. The world is awash in oil. It is estimated that Saudi Arabia has 270 billion barrels in oil reserves. Canada and Venezuela each have more than a trillion. (Much of that is heavy oil, but modern techniques can refine it.) Russia and the North Sea produce 7 million barrels a day each, compared with Saudi Arabia's 8 million. And the United States imports as much from the Guinea Gulf in Africa as from Saudi Arabia. There are massive oil deposits under the Grand Banks in Canada, in Mexico and in Indonesia, to say nothing of off-shore supplies in Florida and California, as well as the north slope of Alaska.

The United States can very easily do without Middle East oil, which accounts for 25 percent of total oil imports (provided we are not castrated by our own environmentalists)."

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/monacharen/mc20011026.shtml
http://www.tzemach.org/fyi/docs/winston/oct31-98.htm
 
http://www.iea.org/g8/world/oilsup.htm (a more reserved view re an oil glut)
 
 
Good morning to all!
 
e b holtsmark - aka jack     =E4ran f=F6rst och fr=E4mst
laohu-AT-avalon.net <mailto:laohu-AT-avalon.net>               esse quam videri
                                         aien aristeuein

_____________________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet
delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further
information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call
Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service.

_____________________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet
delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further
information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call
Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service.

--MS_Mac_OE_3087033038_559236_MIME_Part-- --- from list postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---

Driftline Main Page

 

Display software: ArchTracker © Malgosia Askanas, 2000-2005