Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 16:05:26 +0800
Subject: RE: any idea


I don't think the use of the defitite article in English, especially in relation to proper nouns, is as consistent as in some other languages. Translation from the Arabic (or other languages) is also not a good guide. Although 'the Sudan' seems to be still quite prevalent, the definite article in relation to Yemen and Lebanon is more often being deleted nowadays: in fact a corpus analysis of 'Sudan' will I am sure show that 'the' is not always used. An Internet search indicates this:

o 'the' is not used by the Sudan Ministry of Foreign Affairs
o it is not always used by the Embassy of the Sudan on its website
o the CIA factbook on the Sudan uses 'the Sudan' only once -- to indicate the 'conventional long form' of the country's name: 'Republic of the Sudan'
o a search of other web pages indicates that there are fewer instances of the use of the definite article when compared to its use

Perhaps the question to ask here is whether the definite article is used in English at all when the simple name of the country is given. Of course, it is not used in relation to certain countries (as noted by some listers): 'the Italy', 'the France', 'the Morocco', 'the Egypt' are almost never found in English, unless the 'the' + *name of country" syntax is used, restricting oneself to Egypt:

o to premodify a noun: eg.  -- 'the Egypt page', 'the Egypt Centre', 'the Egypt game', 'the Egypt enthusiast'

o to premodify a prepositional phrase: 'the Egypt of the Ptolomies' or 'The Egypt of the Americas' (Mexico)

A question that crops up here is why 'the' is possible in relation to the name of certain countries. 

-AT- One possible answer is that these countries, before they became countries or nation states in the modern sense, were regions. The Yemen, during British colonisation of the South, and before the unification of North and South, was more appropriately referred to as 'the Yemen' -- hence the 'the' may be less often used nowadays, as it is a united country. It may even be 'politically incorrect' to refer it as such, as 'the Yemen' may actually refer, at least regionally, to an entity which includes parts of Saudi Arabia. The same, one suspects, may be true of the contemporary use of the definite article in relation to the Sudan and the Congo. Although this again defies grammatical logic, as divided Germany was referred to in the plural, as 'the Germanies', and divided Korea is referred to today, as 'the Koreas'.

-AT- Another possible answer is that these countries are quite large in terms of land area, although this does not explain why 'the' can be used in relation to the Lebanon, or more surprisingly, in relation to the Gambia.

In response to the postcolonial question, the answer is 'yes', it has that dimension -- but perhaps not in ways thought by some people. The historically more prevalent use of the definite article with its diminishing contemporary use may signal a movement of certain regions (or geographical locations, in relation to the Gambia) towards statehood -- as the term is understood nowadays.

-- Just my 2 cents worth... (but of course, English being English, everything I said above can be disputed with further counter-examples -- in addition to those I have given).

Ismail

-----Original Message-----
From: saeed urrehman <saeed.urrehman-AT-anu.edu.au>
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 11:54:59 +1100
To: postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
Subject: RE: any idea


> There is another thing that governs the use of the definite article in
> english: etymology.
> 
> "The" developed from "that" and seems to be an objectifying device: "that
> guy" just becomes "the guy."
> 
> saeed
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> [mailto:owner-postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu]On Behalf Of TS
> Kim
> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 11:32 AM
> To: postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> Subject: Re: any idea
> 
> 
> As long as we're on this "definite article" thread ... does anyone know
> why the burrough in New York City is called THE BRONX and not just BRONX?
> 
> Tommy S Kim
> University of Minnesota
> Department of English
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>      --- from list postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> 
> 
> 
>      --- from list postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> 


-- 

_______________________________________________
1 cent a minute calls anywhere in the U.S.!

http://www.getpennytalk.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=RG9853KJ&url=http://www.getpennytalk.com





     --- from list postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---