File spoon-archives/postcolonial.archive/postcolonial_2002/postcolonial.0203, message 227


Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:37:26 -0800 (PST)
From: jamil khader <inbetween_2000-AT-yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: marriages in Israel


--0-1676867380-1016465846=:38586


 Palestinian Muslims inside Israel have also thier own religious courts and marriage contracts are handled by Muslim clergy, who then forward the contract to the Interior Ministry. No jewish rabbi as I know of suprvises this process. Jamil
  Janice Abo Ganis <Bmjag-AT-wintec.ac.nz> wrote: I married an Israeli citizen of Palestinian descent ( Iam a citizen of
NZ )- to get around the marriage laws we signed a cohabitation contract
with a lawyer. How this would stand up legally in terms of residency,
etc, I do not know although the contract did appear to be viewed as a
marriage contract. We had some legal business in Israel we needed to
attend to as a married couple and the contract was suffice for this
purpose. At that time there was no civil marriage in Israel ( 1987)

janice

>>> Charrl-AT-aol.com 18/03/2002 13:46:16 >>>
In a message dated 3/11/02 2:33:28 PM Central Standard Time, 
trawick-AT-clear.net.nz writes:


> 
> Charles -
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that to get married in
Israel,
> anyone of whatever faith requires the permission of the Ultra
Orthodox
> Jewish clergy. People get around this by going to another country to

> marry.
> Also, the Ultra Orthodox Jewish community in Israel is the most
militant
> with respect to Palestinians, even though members of this community
are
> exempt from military service.
> 
> Margaret
> 
> >
> > You also mentioned, concerning Ultra Orthodox Jews, that Israeli
rabbis
> > control aspects of family life, and that divorce can be granted
only by a
> man
> > (the latter is a very controversial issue among Jews in the US). 
> Orthodox
> > Israeli Jews not in business have much less contact with Arab
Moslems 
> than
> > whites and blacks had with one another in the segregated US
South...even
> less
> > contact than that between white landowners and Indians still living
a
> > little-known cold war in the area of the Yankton Sioux in South
Dakota at
> the
> > turn of this new century.
> >
> > These Jews have maintained a great measure of isolation even
though
> outsiders
> > can visit their neighborhoods. You also referred to the
homogeneity of
> the
> > population of Japan and the non-democratic nature of China, even
though
> > pretty much anyone can visit. So wouldn't if follow that Mecca and

> Medina
> > could maintain their special characteristics even with non-Moslems

> allowed
> to
> > visit? By the way, I'm not suggesting that skimpily clad casual
tourists
> > would be allowed at the Kaaba, or even that any non-Moslems would
> necessarily
> > be allowed to visit the holiest sections during the annual Hajj.
> >
> > The issue to me is respect. Do the "mainstream" Moslems
controlling the
> holy
> > cities of Arabia have respect for a non-Moslem, for his or her
life, and
> for
> > his or her property, enough to let one visit their holy cities, or
do 
> they
> > still regard the non-Moslem as a sort of leper or undesirable? If
they 
> do
> > have this level of respect let them show it, and I would welcome
their
> > participation in a serious discussion of how to bring peace.
> >
> > Charles Orlowek
> >
> 
> Margaret,

Non-Jews in Israel do not need the permission of any kind of Jewish
rabbi to 
marry, and within the Jewish community non-orthodox rabbis can perform
Jewish 
marriages. 

In the former Soviet Union, people with Jewish ancestry were formally 
identified as Jews (as an ethnic designation rather than a religious
one 
under the communist regimes). Some of these people have immigrated to

Israel, only to find out later that according to religious law they
are not 
Jews, since they were born to non-Jewish mothers (even if the
immigrants' 
fathers or their father's families may be Jewish). As some of these
former 
Soviets have become engaged to what they thought were fellow Jews, they
have 
discovered they are not permitted a Jewish ceremony. 

In Israel, the conditions for conversion of a non-Jew to Judaism are
governed 
by orthodox standards, which are cumbersome, though a court decision
earlier 
this month has weakened the position of the orthodox in this regard. 
Rather 
than go through a conversion in Israel, many "non-Jewish" Jews choose
to go 
abroad where they can more easily convert under the auspices of a 
non-orthodox rabbi and get married.

A friend who is somewhat expert on this told me that the orthodox
rabbis in 
Israel either already have the responsibility or are pushing for a key
role 
in registering marriages, even between completely non-Jewish partners. 


As to the militancy of the orthodox in Israel, they do not, as you
said, 
serve in the military. At one time, some of the ultra orthodox were
very 
apolitcal, and many orthodox refrained from sanctioning the
establishment of 
a Jewish state. (According to this line of thinking, only upon the
arrival 
of the Messiah could such a state be declared.) At the same time, I
know 
there are many elements within the orthodox community who do take a
hard line 
toward the Palestinians. 

As I said in an earlier post today, I think the Sephardic Jews of
Middle 
Eastern and North African backgrounds constitute the largest block of
hard 
liners. 


> 
> 
> 


--- from list postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---




Jamil Khader, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of English
The English Department
Stetson University
421 N. Woodland Blv.
Deland, FL 32720
(386) 822-7366 (w)(386) 740-1416 (h)


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Palestinian Muslims inside Israel have also thier own religious courts and marriage contracts are handled by Muslim clergy, who then forward the contract to the Interior Ministry. No jewish rabbi as I know of suprvises this process. Jamil

  Janice Abo Ganis <Bmjag-AT-wintec.ac.nz> wrote:

I married an Israeli citizen of Palestinian descent ( Iam a citizen of
NZ )- to get around the marriage laws we signed a cohabitation contract
with a lawyer. How this would stand up legally in terms of residency,
etc, I do not know although the contract did appear to be viewed as a
marriage contract. We had some legal business in Israel we needed to
attend to as a married couple and the contract was suffice for this
purpose. At that time there was no civil marriage in Israel ( 1987)

janice

>>> Charrl-AT-aol.com 18/03/2002 13:46:16 >>>
In a message dated 3/11/02 2:33:28 PM Central Standard Time,
trawick-AT-clear.net.nz writes:


>
> Charles -
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that to get married in
Israel,
> anyone of whatever faith requires the permission of the Ultra
Orthodox
> Jewish clergy. People get around this by going to another country to

> marry.
> Also, the Ultra Orthodox Jewish community in Israel is the most
militant
> with respect to Palestinians, even though members of this community
are
> exempt from military service.
>
> Margaret
>
> >
> > You also mentioned, concerning Ultra Orthodox Jews, that Israeli
rabbis
> > control aspects of family life, and that divorce can be granted
only by a
> man
> > (the latter is a very controversial issue among Jews in the US).
> Orthodox
> > Israeli Jews not in business have much less contact with Arab
Moslems
> than
> > whites and blacks had with one another in the segregated US
South...even
> less
> > contact than that between white landowners and Indians still living
a
> > little-known cold war in the area of the Yankton Sioux in South
Dakota at
> the
> > turn of this new century.
> >
> > These Jews have maintained a great measure of isolation even
though
> outsiders
> > can visit their neighborhoods. You also referred to the
homogeneity of
> the
> > population of Japan and the non-democratic nature of China, even
though
> > pretty much anyone can visit. So wouldn't if follow that Mecca and

> Medina
> > could maintain their special characteristics even with non-Moslems

> allowed
> to
> > visit? By the way, I'm not suggesting that skimpily clad casual
tourists
> > would be allowed at the Kaaba, or even that any non-Moslems would
> necessarily
> > be allowed to visit the holiest sections during the annual Hajj.
> >
> > The issue to me is respect. Do the "mainstream" Moslems
controlling the
> holy
> > cities of Arabia have respect for a non-Moslem, for his or her
life, and
> for
> > his or her property, enough to let one visit their holy cities, or
do
> they
> > still regard the non-Moslem as a sort of leper or undesirable? If
they
> do
> > have this level of respect let them show it, and I would welcome
their
> > participation in a serious discussion of how to bring peace.
> >
> > Charles Orlowek
> >
>
> Margaret,

Non-Jews in Israel do not need the permission of any kind of Jewish
rabbi to
marry, and within the Jewish community non-orthodox rabbis can perform
Jewish
marriages.

In the former Soviet Union, people with Jewish ancestry were formally
identified as Jews (as an ethnic designation rather than a religious
one
under the communist regimes). Some of these people have immigrated to

Israel, only to find out later that according to religious law they
are not
Jews, since they were born to non-Jewish mothers (even if the
immigrants'
fathers or their father's families may be Jewish). As some of these
former
Soviets have become engaged to what they thought were fellow Jews, they
have
discovered they are not permitted a Jewish ceremony.

In Israel, the conditions for conversion of a non-Jew to Judaism are
governed
by orthodox standards, which are cumbersome, though a court decision
earlier
this month has weakened the position of the orthodox in this regard.
Rather
than go through a conversion in Israel, many "non-Jewish" Jews choose
to go
abroad where they can more easily convert under the auspices of a
non-orthodox rabbi and get married.

A friend who is somewhat expert on this told me that the orthodox
rabbis in
Israel either already have the responsibility or are pushing for a key
role
in registering marriages, even between completely non-Jewish partners.


As to the militancy of the orthodox in Israel, they do not, as you
said,
serve in the military. At one time, some of the ultra orthodox were
very
apolitcal, and many orthodox refrained from sanctioning the
establishment of
a Jewish state. (According to this line of thinking, only upon the
arrival
of the Messiah could such a state be declared.) At the same time, I
know
there are many elements within the orthodox community who do take a
hard line
toward the Palestinians.

As I said in an earlier post today, I think the Sephardic Jews of
Middle
Eastern and North African backgrounds constitute the largest block of
hard
liners.


>
>
>


--- from list postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---




Jamil Khader, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of English
The English Department
Stetson University
421 N. Woodland Blv.
Deland, FL 32720
(386) 822-7366 (w)(386) 740-1416 (h)



Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage --0-1676867380-1016465846=:38586-- --- from list postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---

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