From: "Vince Tseng" <vince-AT-squaretrade.com> Subject: RE: marriages in Israel Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:34:35 -0800 Slightly off topic, but if you think the subject of marriage and residency is tricky in Israel, think about what it's like to be a gay israeli-palestinian couple. There was an interesting article posted on Salon a month back... http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2002/02/21/ezra_selim/index.html Of course, there's the broader issue of trans-racial relationships and their susceptibility to colonialist/imperialist mappings, but perhaps that's a sticky subject for another time... vince -----Original Message----- From: owner-postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu [mailto:owner-postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu]On Behalf Of jamil khader Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 7:37 AM To: postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu Subject: Re: marriages in Israel Palestinian Muslims inside Israel have also thier own religious courts and marriage contracts are handled by Muslim clergy, who then forward the contract to the Interior Ministry. No jewish rabbi as I know of suprvises this process. Jamil Janice Abo Ganis <Bmjag-AT-wintec.ac.nz> wrote: I married an Israeli citizen of Palestinian descent ( Iam a citizen of NZ )- to get around the marriage laws we signed a cohabitation contract with a lawyer. How this would stand up legally in terms of residency, etc, I do not know although the contract did appear to be viewed as a marriage contract. We had some legal business in Israel we needed to attend to as a married couple and the contract was suffice for this purpose. At that time there was no civil marriage in Israel ( 1987) janice >>> Charrl-AT-aol.com 18/03/2002 13:46:16 >>> In a message dated 3/11/02 2:33:28 PM Central Standard Time, trawick-AT-clear.net.nz writes: > > Charles - > > Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that to get married in Israel, > anyone of whatever faith requires the permission of the Ultra Orthodox > Jewish clergy. People get around this by going to another country to > marry. > Also, the Ultra Orthodox Jewish community in Israel is the most militant > with respect to Palestinians, even though members of this community are > exempt from military service. > > Margaret > > > > > You also mentioned, concerning Ultra Orthodox Jews, that Israeli rabbis > > control aspects of family life, and that divorce can be granted only by a > man > > (the latter is a very controversial issue among Jews in the US). > Orthodox > > Israeli Jews not in business have much less contact with Arab Moslems > than > > whites and blacks had with one another in the segregated US South...even > less > > contact than that between white landowners and Indians still living a > > little-known cold war in the area of the Yankton Sioux in South Dakota at > the > > turn of this new centu! ry. > > > > These Jews have maintained a great measure of isolation even though > outsiders > > can visit their neighborhoods. You also referred to the homogeneity of > the > > population of Japan and the non-democratic nature of China, even though > > pretty much anyone can visit. So wouldn't if follow that Mecca and > Medina > > could maintain their special characteristics even with non-Moslems > allowed > to > > visit? By the way, I'm not suggesting that skimpily clad casual tourists > > would be allowed at the Kaaba, or even that any non-Moslems would > necessarily > > be allowed to visit the holiest sections during the annual Hajj. > > > > The issue to me is respect. Do the "mainstream" Moslems controlling the > holy > > cities of Arabia have respect for a non-Moslem, for his or her life, and > for > > his or her property, enough to let one visit their holy cities, or do > they > > still regard the non-Moslem as a sort of leper or undesirable? If they > do > > have this level of respect let them show it, and I would welcome their > > participation in a serious discussion of how to bring peace. > > > > Charles Orlowek > > > > Margaret, Non-Jews in Israel do not need the permission of any kind of Jewish rabbi to marry, and within the Jewish community non-orthodox rabbis can perform Jewish marriages. In the former Soviet Union, people with Jewish ancestry were formally identified as Jews (as an ethnic designation rather than a religious one under the communist regimes). Some of these people have immigrated to Israel, only to find out later that according to religious law they are not Jews, since they were born to non-Jewish mothers (even if the immigrants' fathers or t! heir father's families may be Jewish). As some of these former Soviets have become engaged to what they thought were fellow Jews, they have discovered they are not permitted a Jewish ceremony. In Israel, the conditions for conversion of a non-Jew to Judaism are governed by orthodox standards, which are cumbersome, though a court decision earlier this month has weakened the position of the orthodox in this regard. Rather than go through a conversion in Israel, many "non-Jewish" Jews choose to go abroad where they can more easily convert under the auspices of a non-orthodox rabbi and get married. A friend who is somewhat expert on this told me that the orthodox rabbis in Israel either already have the responsibility or are pushing for a key role in registering marriages, even between completely non-Jewish partners. As to the militancy of the orthodox in Israel, they do not, as you said, serve in the military. At one time, some of the ultra orthodox were very apolitcal, and many orthodox refrained from sanctioning the establishment of a Jewish state. (According to this line of thinking, only upon the arrival of the Messiah could such a state be declared.) At the same time, I know there are many elements within the orthodox community who do take a hard line toward the Palestinians. As I said in an earlier post today, I think the Sephardic Jews of Middle Eastern and North African backgrounds constitute the largest block of hard liners. > > > --- from list postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- Jamil Khader, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of English The English Department Stetson University 421 N. Woodland Blv. Deland, FL 32720 (386) 822-7366 (w)(386) 740-1416 (h) Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage --- from list postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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