From: suhak-AT-canada.com
Date: 27 Mar 2002 11:37:32 -0800
Subject: [low] holy cities -last time


Hi,

It is accepted among all Muslims, as far as my knowledge goes, that the holy places in Arabia are restricted to anyone who is not a Muslim, be it a Jew or a Christian, or any other religion. While non-Muslims can visit Saudi Arabia, they are not allowed into the holy areas/restricted areas (Najd in general). Many non-Muslims actually work and live in Saudi Arabia, and they are also able to practice their religion(s). So, not all of Saudi Arabia is restricted.

There was never an Islamic Fatwa, from an accepted/acknowledged Islamic authority, to drive Israelis/Jews to the sea, or to any other area. While some people, in their national zeal may have made such statements, this does not constitute a fatwa. Not any one can pass a religious fatwa. 

I used the term 'Mizrakhis/Mizrakhim"  deliberately so as not to confuse them with "Sephardics/Sephardim" whose history is different than that of Mizrakhis.

In my previous emails, I attempted to present historical acknowledged events, be it  religious/cultural/linguistic. It is not my purpose to present speculative argument(s). So, this is the last email that I will write re. this topic.

Cheers,

Suha

On Tue, 26 March 2002, Charrl-AT-aol.com wrote:

> I see that while it may be interesting to speculate on the origins of the prohibition of outsiders visiting Mecca and Medina, after a very long time of adhering to this practice it has become a "sunna" which cannot be altered, whatever the origin.  <BR>
> <BR>
> The principle of entrenching tradition in a formal practice or law is obviously common to many societies.  The concept of common law in the Anglo-Saxon tradition comes to mind.  In Judaism, if an individual adheres to (or refrains from) a certain practice not addressed in the formal law, over time the practice comes to be regarded as if the individual had vowed to follow it, and the individual is bound to continue the practice for the rest of his or her life.<BR>
> <BR>
> When some Saudis say they believe non-Moslems should not be permitted anywhere in Saudi Arabia, is this a logical extension of the restrictions relating to Mecca and Medina?  Does anyone know what credence this belief has among Moslem religious leaders inside or outside the country?<BR>
> <BR>
> Likewise, are there other "sunnas" created in the same way relating to relations with Jews or other outsiders?  And as Moslems and Palestinians have been shouting "Intifada to death!" and similar things, do these statements carry with them the same unalterable characteristic as the prohibition of outsiders in Mecca?  That is, once having uttered these words, could these people ever agree to peace with Israel in their lifetimes, and would even their descendants be bound by these words?  <BR>
> <BR>
> I seem to recall statements by clergy in Iran that once the fatwa against Salman Rushdie was issued, it can never be rescinded.  Would this apply also to people who have at any time vowed to drive Israel into the sea?   <BR>
> <BR>
> Regarding support for Likud among Sephardic Jews in Israel, I had not heard the interpretation that their support is largely unrelated to the Likud position vis-a-vis the Palestinians.  <BR>
> <BR>
> Likud has been a hawkish party since I can remember.  However, there are many parties in Israel representing niche constituencies, some of which hold great power when coalition governments are formed, so I doubt the explanation that the Sephardim picked Likud as "the other party".  It should also be noted that while Labor may be more identified with rank and file Ashkenazim, Likud's leaders have been mostly Ashkenazim and have still garnered major support from the Sephardic Jews.  I believe Begin, Shamir, Netanyahu, and Sharon were all born into Ashkenazic families. <BR>
> <BR>
> Sephardic Jews would include families which had lived in Spain but which moved to Europe after the inquisition (some families moved to the Netherlands, for example).  Would it be fair to say the "Mizrakhi" Jews you speak of would be the Sephardic community minus these westernized Sephardim?  In any event, my understanding is the overwhelming majority of the Israeli Sephardim are from families which had become settled in the Middle East and North Africa. <BR>
> <BR>
> While some Sephardim may not have known Hebrew (other than the ancient language) prior to migrating to Israel, so many Ashkenazic Jews also did not know the modern language.  The latter spoke an Ashkenazic <I>lingua franca</I>  called Yiddish, based largely on German, while the former spoke their own <I>lingua franca</I>, Ladino, based largely on Spanish.<BR>
> <BR>
> To what extent is anti-Israel sentiment based on the dominant position of the Ashkenazim viv-a-vis the Sephardim?  To what extent is opposition to Israel anti-Jewish (related as it were to the antagonisms going back centuries which may have driven the prohibition of Jews from entering Mecca-even though they were also monotheistic), and to what extent  is it relatively more related to feelings about the west and neo-colonialism?<BR>
> <BR>
> Charles Orlowek</FONT></HTML>


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