File spoon-archives/postcolonial.archive/postcolonial_2003/postcolonial.0303, message 92


From: "Debra Lundberg" <dllund1-AT-pop.uky.edu>
Subject: RE: howard zenn
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 09:47:13 -0500


http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2003-02/27zinn.cfm

And here's the February 27th article titled "War".

Debra L. Lundberg
UK Computer Store
128 Peterson Service Bldg.
lexington, KY 40506-0005
859-257-9292x267
859-323-1964 fax 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
[mailto:owner-postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu] On Behalf Of
Jamil Khader
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 8:56 AM
To: postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
Subject: howard zenn

does any body have a link to howard zenn's article on the war? Thanks
Jamil
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Debra Lundberg" <dllund1-AT-pop.uky.edu>
To: <postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 8:13 AM
Subject: RE: Robert Fisk: 'It was an outrage, an obscenity'(II)


> A good book to refer to at this time is Howard Zinn's "On War" in
which
> he examines the "just war" argument.  As an American historian he's
> mostly concerned with US history, nevertheless, it's a slim tome and
can
> help one frame peace or anti-war arguments that are understandable by
> different folk in different positions.  Peace, like democracy, cannot
be
> imposed.  They can only be achieved through dialogue and consensus.
> 
> Debra L. Lundberg
> UK Computer Store
> 128 Peterson Service Bldg.
> lexington, KY 40506-0005
> 859-257-9292x267
> 859-323-1964 fax 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> [mailto:owner-postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu] On Behalf Of
Liam
> Connell
> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 4:52 AM
> To: postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> Subject: Re: Robert Fisk: 'It was an outrage, an obscenity'(II)
> 
> Mark
> 
> The BBC reported this morning that Donald Rumsfeld is considering
using 
> "non lethal" chemical weapons should forces be drawn into street 
> fighting.  The rationale here is that this will cause less loss of
life 
> than bombing or weapons' fire.  This is in contravention of the 
> International Conventions on the use of chemical weapons to which the
US
> 
> remains a signatory by the way.
> 
> Leaving aside the problematic issue of whether these chemical really
are
> 
> non lethal (see the civilian deaths in the Moscow Theatre) the same
> logic 
> could be advanced for the use of lethal chemical weapons.  Less people
> will 
> die if the Iraqi or US army is wiped out using a deliberately fatal 
> chemical attack.
> 
> What's the point here?  It is certainly not to say that the Iraqi
regime
> 
> (as opposed to the Iraqis - I think this is an important distinction
for
> 
> the reasons that Ly raises in another post - and it is troubling how 
> quickly we slip into the cultures of nationalism at times like this)
are
> 
> following the rule of law.  But it is important to remember that
neither
> 
> are the US or UK governments/armed forces.  We might point out that
the 
> legal case for this war is at best not proven.  In addition the Geneva

> convention is being breached on both sides of this conflict.
> 
> The point is that war is not a moral activity whether legally pursued
or
> 
> (as in this case) not.
> 
> If you don't believe that the US administration is imperialist perhaps
> you 
> should check out the reports of the Independent Strategy, a financial 
> research company for institutional investors, who are describing it in

> these terms within the large (and presumably right wing) financial 
> institutions.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,922217,00.html
> 
> or better still the project for the New American Century, founded by
the
> 
> likes of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Jeb Bush and Wolfowitz.
> 
> http://www.newamericancentury.org/
> 
> This ain't conspiracy theory: they said it.
> 
> I campaigned about human rights abuses in Iraq well before 1991 but
the
> way 
> to get rid of tyrants like Saddam Hussein is to make it clear that
> abuses 
> of human rights will be punished by international law.  That means
> putting 
> people like Pinochet and Sharon on trial, as well as Kissinger for
> abuses 
> up and down Latin and Central America and Southern Asia,and Rumsfeld
for
> 
> the abuse of human rights in Guantanamo Bay.  Pity the US regime
values
> its 
> sovereignty above such a lofty aim.
> 
> Apportioning blame for every single incident in the war doesn't seem
to
> me 
> to be a helpful or profitable use of our time while the broader moral 
> issues are so clearly being subverted by US hegemony.
> 
> Liam
> 
> 
> At 05:09 27/03/03 +0000, you wrote:
> 
> 
> >And I guess next I'll be told the Iraqis are following the rule of
war
> too
> >and this is just a figment of the right wing/imperial imagination...
> >
> >http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N26193183.htm
> >
> >http://www.forbes.com/business/newswire/2003/03/26/rtr920518.html
> >
> >And then there is the issue of when a white flag isn't a white
flag...
> >
> >http://www.katu.com/news/war_story.asp?ID=55842
> >
> >Later, MEH
> >
> >Mark Hall
> >markhall-AT-gol.com
> >
> >
> >      --- from list postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> 
> _________________________________
> 
> Dr Liam Connell
> Department of Humanities
> University of Hertfordshire
> Wall Hall
> Watford Campus
> Aldenham
> WD25 8AT
> 
> 
> 
>      --- from list postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> 
> 
> 
>      --- from list postcolonial-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> 


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