File spoon-archives/puptcrit.archive/puptcrit_1999/puptcrit.9911, message 122


Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 12:13:20 -0500 (EST)
From: John Bell <jb44-AT-is3.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: PUPT: Being John Malkovich...really, ON topic!


I think my point is that if there is any "spoiling" going on, it is in
mass-media representations of the situation of puppets and puppeteers at the
end of the century.  It is certainly in our interest to discuss mass-media
representations even though we have not (yet) paid to see them.  Puppets and
puppeteers have generally not been well represented in Hollywood films;
rather, such representations have fostered allegorical myths about puppetry.
Compare, for example, the real situation of the Turnabout Theater in Los
Angeles in the (30s?) 40s and 50s as compared to the representation of
puppets in films such as the Bil Baird sequence in the Sound of Music.

john bell

At 12:01 PM 11/18/1999 -0500, you wrote:
>Thanks Kurt,
>You got it exactly. Thanks for explaining the ettiquette. I Like Spoiler Alert.
>That's a good solution, Its not only the plot but the jokes. There is much
>puppetry related humor that wont be as funny if you already have the heard the
>lines.
>With the additon of SPOILER ALERT this could certainly be a lively topic
>Steve Abrams
>
>"Hunter, Kurt" wrote:
>
>> I think the idea was just not to "give away the plot" of the film and I
>> agree with that.  I saw the movie last week and I'm glad that I didn't know
>> too much about the plot going in.
>>
>> I don't see any problem with discussing the details of the film as long as
>> some warning is given in the subject line or top of the message, so that
>> anyone who hasn't seen the movie yet can avoid having it spoiled for them.
>> In news groups, the common practice tends to be to put in something like:
>>
>> SPOILER ALERT
>>
>> followed by a page of blank lines and then the details that you are giving
>> away.
>>
>> The movie practically begs for discussion here.
>>
>> Kurt Hunter
>>
>>                 -----Original Message-----
>>                 From:   John Bell [mailto:jb44-AT-is3.nyu.edu]
>>                 Sent:   Thursday, November 18, 1999 10:12 AM
>>                 To:     puptcrit-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>>                 Subject:        Re: PUPT: Being John Malkovich...really, ON
>> topic!
>>
>>                 Why would it be better _not_ to discuss details of the film?
>>
>>                         I haven't seen the film, but one thing that
>> interests me is the way
>>                 that the technique of marionette performance is used by mass
>> media as a
>>                 metaphor for the popular image of puppetry being about
>> control.  It's
>>                 especially odd that marionettes are presented as the form
>> which becomes
>>                 incredibly popular (Malkovich, as I understand it, is made
>> to espouse puppet
>>                 theater as the wave of the future, after which we see giant?
>> life-size?
>>                 marionettes in action).
>>                         It's odd because in fact the innovations of western
>> puppet theater
>>                 since WW 2 have centered on puppet techniques which
>> generally _avoid_ the
>>                 complex stringing systems of marionette manipulation.  I'm
>> thinking of
>>                 Henson's rod and hand manipulation, and Peter Schumann's
>> attention to the
>>                 same methods (in his case influenced by Bunraku) as well as
>> giant puppets.
>>                 The choice of marionnettes in the film fits a popular
>> metaphor for what
>>                 puppetry is (the puppeteer manipulating the object), but not
>> the reality of
>>                 the real puppet revival, for example in July Taymor's
>> variety of puppet
>>                 techniques in The Lion King, none of which have to do with
>> marionetter
>>                 manipulation, or the giant figures Michael Curry is creating
>> for the New
>>                 Year's puppet spectacle on Times Square next month.
>>                         It's interesting to think of the way Figuren Theater
>> Tubingen used
>>                 marionettes in "Flamingo Bar," which has been performed in
>> the US a bit.
>>                 What's fascinating about that marionette manipulation is
>> that often, as is
>>                 the case with Czech marionnettes (i.e., Forman Brothers, or
>> Vera and
>>                 Frantisek) and Sicilian marionnette theater, the "trick" is
>> _not_ about a
>>                 puppeteer controlling the puppet by its strings, but about
>> the puppeteer
>>                 discovering what the _puppet_ wants to do with its limbs
>> which are
>>                 unattached to strings.
>>
>>                 John Bell
>>                 Great Small Works
>>
>>                 At 10:27 AM 11/18/1999 -0500, you wrote:
>>                 >I would strongly suggest that any discussion of the details
>> of Being John
>>                 >Malkovich
>>                 >be avoided. The less said the better. It would spoil the
>> surprises.
>>                 >Puppeteers should see it for the puppetry and to see how we
>> are
>>                 >portrayed. However if you do not like movies with sex and
>> graphic
>>                 >language you will be offended.
>>                 >There is an excellent article about the film in Puppetry
>> Journal.
>>                 >Steve
>>                 >
>>                 >Spcglider-AT-aol.com wrote:
>>                 >
>>                 >> No kidding!
>>                 >>
>>                 >> A friend of mine saw this new film and said that there
>> was some great
>>                 >> marionettes in it.
>>                 >>
>>                 >> Anybody have any idea what it's all about?
>>                 >> -Gordon
>>                 >>
>>                 >>   --- Personal replies to: Spcglider-AT-aol.com
>>                 >>   --- List replies to:
>> puptcrit-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>>                 >>   --- Admin commands to:
>> majordomo-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>>                 >>   --- Archives at:
>> http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons
>>                 >
>>                 >
>>                 >
>>                 >  --- Personal replies to: Steve Abrams
>> <sapuppets-AT-bigfoot.com>
>>                 >  --- List replies to:
>> puptcrit-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>>                 >  --- Admin commands to:
>> majordomo-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>>                 >  --- Archives at:
>> http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons
>>                 >
>>                 >
>>                 >
>>
>>                   --- Personal replies to: John Bell <jb44-AT-is3.nyu.edu>
>>                   --- List replies to:
>> puptcrit-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>>                   --- Admin commands to:
>> majordomo-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>>                   --- Archives at:
>> http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons
>>
>>   --- Personal replies to: "Hunter, Kurt" <KHunter-AT-siemens-psc.com>
>>   --- List replies to:     puptcrit-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>>   --- Admin commands to:   majordomo-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>>   --- Archives at:         http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons
>
>
>
>  --- Personal replies to: Steve Abrams <sapuppets-AT-bigfoot.com>
>  --- List replies to:     puptcrit-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>  --- Admin commands to:   majordomo-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>  --- Archives at:         http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons
>
>
>



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