Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 02:15:33 -0400
Subject: PUPT: Re: Puppet Price
From: Christopher Hudert <heyhoot-AT-mindspring.com>


I agree, for the most part, with Wayne. Figure out the show first and then
the type of puppet and building materials. Our average cost to build a
puppet is somewhere between $.50 and $5,000.00 depending on size, style and
materials. Custom hair/fur can run you several hundred a yard. Fun fur or
other material a few dollars a yard.  Mechanics can be simple or machined
alloy. Size can be table top to bigger than life. One character may require
several puppets. For our version of "Jungle Book" there are 4 different
Mowglis, each made to do something particular, in addition to the main
Mowgli. 
 Second thought on this is that I, personally, have gone away from selling
the puppets to a theater for two major reasons: 1) they NEVER have enough
money in the budget to pay for the puppets - the building cost plus a
reasonable sizeable mark up as you will not make any money from them again,
and 2) you no longer have any control over how the puppets represent you. A
few years from now they could be "rode hard and put away wet" in horrid
condition and they are still your work. Not really, since they aren't
anything like what you delivered, but they will still represent your work in
the public's eye. Now when we are commissioned to build puppets for someone
else show we set a budget to include the build and initial lease, then lease
them to them for subsiquent productions. In between they pay for repairs
beyond normal wear and tear. There are exceptions, but that is now the rule.
 Third thought is a circular approach. Set a budget, select a show, build
with materials that will come in under budget. Got $100 each for the puppets
- maybe recycled materials or paper mache is what you will use. Got $1,000
each for puppets - maybe you can afford fun fur and foam. Got $10,000 each?
Give me a call and we'll talk.
 Fourth thought - Perhaps your approach to this is a sort of a loss leader -
break even and get your foot in the door. If so, let them know they won't
get all the shows this cheap so they don't budget accordingly. Maybe it is a
vanity vehicle - a show you REALLY want to do but can't mount alone so are
willing to do it at somewhat of a loss if need be. Shared risk is a nice
approach, but try to share success too.
 Fifth thought - the theater should have an idea what their average per show
budget is. Can you envision the show for that ammount? Scale of set is
different but still needs to be in the budget. Actors/puppeteers will be
needed so that is still a line item in the budget. Props will be different
so some money gets moved from that budget to the puppet budget. And so on.
 Another item not even discussed to this point is how long do these puppets
have to last? One run of 6 shows? One run of 60 shows? A run of 60 shows
every two or three seasons? Built for the ages for an indefinite run? All of
this should make a differance in the way the puppet is built and with what
materials, and therefore cost.
 And who is building these puppets? You mentioned that you
>"would hope that if this production does happen that I would be able to give
members of the greater puppet community the opportunity to get involved. <
Are the styles of puppets going to match in the show if different people
from different companies build them? And different companies will charge
differently to build the "same" puppet. Muppet studios will give you a
different quality and cost than Joe Blow who is building puppets in his
garage in his spare time. The time and experience and expertise are going to
be billed at vastly different hourly rates. That surely will effect budget.
 In the end I think the best approach would be to narrow it down to a couple
of different possible shows and go from there.
  I disagree that most builders know what their average puppet costs to
build. Most of us don't keep that close books. And when we do, we don't
generally include our time in the cost to build, and figure mostly the
materials costs. Furthermore, most puppet builders I know have a studio full
of stuff that they have accumulated over a number of years/builds and pull
from this stock. They have little or no idea of its current value or what
percentage of it they use for a build. A best guess in most cases should be
doubled to reach something close to actual cost.
 As a blind guess I would estimate that an average show for us costs between
$2,000 and $10,000 dollars. That's a pretty wide range, but it really does
depend on style, number of puppets involved, and development time. Since we
don't work in any one style there may be a simple hand puppet for about $50
or less in materials, to something sculpted and cast from neoprene with a
reticulated foam, fur and/or fabric body costing $100 or more in materials,
to something carved from bass wood costing several hundred dollars in time
and materials, to something all together different, all in one show.
 And don't forget to include a seperate price in your bid for design time as
there will be one initial design and four or more redesigns due to input of
the director, producer, etc. There may even be some re-builds due to the
same input. In your own company you eat your mistakes or live with them, but
a redesign and/or re-build because someone else doesn't like x is costly.
Who is going to pay for that?

Perhaps you need to help them see that what they are asking is "how much is
a horse?" Well, do you want a prize race horse or an old nag or somewhere in
between? Rather let's see what you can afford and work within your price
range, getting the best deal for the available money. After all, you can
build a great show on a shoestring, a crappy show on a huge budget, or any
combo of things. There is a saying that you can get anything fast, good, and
cheap - BUT you only get to chose TWO of those things (ie: fast and good,
fast and cheap, or good and cheap)
 
Hope this helps.

Christopher



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