From: Hans Ehrbar <econ-AT-lists.econ.utah.edu>
Subject: Discussion of PON
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:35:34 -0700



Victor, I appreciate your pointing out the importance of
knowing that societies are real.  If they were not, we not
only could "dispense entirely with this chapter", as Bhaskar
put it, but we would also have to give up hope that we can
change society, because if society itself is not real, then
capitalism is an outgrowth of human nature.

Just as I had written the above, Greg's emails came in.  I
enjoyed them thoroughly and learned from both.  After
seeing Chapter 1 of *Bhaskar for Dummies*, I want to read
more of it.

Good idea to send two different emails if you want to make
two different points.  Regarding the second email, about the
standpoint of the proletariat, I would like to add the
following: Both Marx and Bhaskar say that the scientist
should not try to be partial, because this blinkers his or
her analysis.  But later in this chapter here Bhaskar argues
that it is not necessary to be partial in order to come to a
negative evaluation of capitalist exploitation.  Bhaskar
repudiates the fact-value dichotomy!  He claims that values
are part of reality, i.e., certain things are indeed
inherently bad, and capitalism is one of them.


Since we had such good contributions from your part, I will
send you only the next three paragraphs in Bhaskar's text
today.  Bhaskar paves the ground for his critique of
methodological individualism by a hilarious comparison which
drives home the absurdity of the view that societies are not
real.  He compares societies with magnetic fields.  Just
like magnetic fields, social structures are invisible: one
only sees their effects.  Nobody infers from this that
magnetic fields are only concoctions of our minds.  But
although the effects of social sctructures are no less
obvious than those of magnetic fields, Margaret Thatcher and
may others are saying that "society does not exist."  In
other words, they hold that "society" is only a way of
thinking about things; the real agents are the individuals,
not society itself.


We will have the weekend to further discuss the
ramifications of the notion that society is real.  I think
this is relevant for the question what people will learn
from the current stock market bubble, which is deflating
before our eyes.  Then on Monday I will send you Bhaskars's
more specific arguments against methodological
individualism.


--Hans.


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