Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:40:36 +0200
From: emhernan-AT-students.wisc.edu (Elena Margarita Hernandez)
Subject: Re: third-world-women-digest V1 #100


ON 10/31/96, Kamar Osage writes

>Dear Mary L. Keller:
>Re-your post of 10/30/96.  This is the direction I expected these third
>world women were going but it seems as if they are seeking to emulate
>"first world women" or whatever.  The point is that a realistic agenda
>need to be decided on.  When one remembers that western women in the USA
>were not given the right to vote until 1920, it make you realize that
>there will be help coming from the establishment.

I don't understand this statment. Do you mean that because american women
were given that right to vote in 1920 far earlier than say women in other
parts of the world, that they are then in the position to be of resource to
other women elsewere in their struggle for feminity definition (feminists)?

>
>Women are naturally superior to men, this is proven by modern science.
>A man is nothing more than a defective woman, therefore the myth of male
>superiority should be abandoned.  In this society women are not even
>treated as equals to men and most women seem to support this flaw in
>human relationships.
>

I am sad in the words you use "Women are naturally superior to men".  If we
really are superior, then that which we criticque men of doing, that is of
oppression others and looking to be up-one-over (is this the expression) in
order for our gender to execell than we are by this statement above doing
the same thing Kamar.  All we are doing is reversing the roles and how does
this improve justice and oppression all together and makes women the better
of the two genders?


>There are three books that come to mind that would be interesting
>reading for the third world women group:
>
>Ancient Mirrors of Womanhood  and
>
>When God was a Woman  both by Merlin Stone
>
>The Natural Superiority of Women by Ashley Montaque.
>
>There are numerous other books also.
>
>The holy bible is the only authority that has any foundation for the
>debasement of women maybe that is because women had nothing to do with
>the writing of it although it was women who invented writing.  My mother
>is the best person in the world to me, she gave me life instead of
>opting for abortion which was one of her natural choices to make.
>

Finally, to write such a strong statement on the "debasemente of women"
found in the "holy bible" you must be a student of it or a
practicer/interpreter.  Not that you need both of these but as an acadmeic
who strives for knowledge and the benefit of society I have personally read
some of the biographical accounts in the gospels about the character of
Christ.  In them I learned:
a) Chirst after his resurrection from the tomb was first seen by-----Women
b) before burrial would be prepared with spices etc.  Christ did not get
this treatment after his death (after all he was executed as a criminal and
law breaker of the very legalistic practice of religion of the time).  Any
way, a woman who was known in the town as a prostitute burst into a dinner
party at a politician's house where christ had been invited to and took a
bottle of very expensive perfume (some commentators say such expensive
lotion may have been her dowry) over his feet and used her hair to dry
them.  Now let's over look the fact that she is using her hair to dry the
feet and kissing them (the devotion or love may be the motivation, is my
interpretation, but..) however, consider that Christ allowed her to do so.
This is the important point in my arguemtne to you.  This dinner was for
politicians, the elit the ones who knew important personnas in the city.
To have a law breaker and a whore not only show up in the partly but even
speak to me (say I am a tenured faculty at a research university) but then
touch me and cares as if we are pasl. Woah!  And then the comments the
politician (host of the party) said, about who this guy (christ) hangs
arond with leaves a lot to be desired.

I would venture to say on these two scenarios where we witness the care and
honor that christ bestowed upon women, not rejecting them as the society of
the time expected him to but putting them first gives evidence against the
"debasemente of women" being at the "foundation" of the holy bible.

There are other areas in the bible where the women are presented with
strenght and dignity: the book of Esther (a queen whose wisdom prevented
the anihilation of the israelites; the book of Ruth (a young widow, who
loved much her mother in law and later woed a husband for herself) are both
examples of the complexities of women not the "debasement of them".

I think that you out there could come up with texts in the bible where we
can interprete them to say how they "debase" women.  I am not surprised for
this is a very dialectic text there are clear issues and non-clear, there
is room for conflict and contradiction.  However, my point so far has been
to point to these conplexities in this collection of texts in order that
others in this list (including myself) may be careful in how we make
judgementes of texts.  The dichotomies that we demand be not made of us
women (bitch on one end and saint on the other) does not reflect reality.
I am a combination of both; sometimes more like one or the other depending
on..how much sleep I had, if I was stood up on a date..etc.)  Like wise If
I look at a text, or collection there of such as the bible, it would be
wise for me as a critic and cultural educator to keep in mind that there
may be many voices coming out of these texts (including the silenced ones)
that must be considered carefully before one makes statements such as "The
holy bible is the only authority that has any foundation for the
>debasement of women".  I can believe what Kamar says about women not
>having used a "pen" to write the messages of the text given the societal
>view of women at the time but we could be wrong, afterall, these documents
>were preserved, passed on, made copies of by hand, and who knows one of
>those hands may have been a womans.  Second, I have not studied the
>representation of women in other inspirational gospels so I can't comment
>on where the bible compares to them in authenticity of representation of
>women and how often women are cited, etc.

Well, it has been just about fifty minutes responding to this message.  I
did so on partly in view of my respect for "third-world-women" and partly
because of my own commitment to different ways of knowing (including all
relious knowledge) that honestly dialogues with issues of truth and
justice.

I end with a thank you for those who will read this as I know that their
time is precious.  And I thank Kamar for her contribution to this
discussion.  I know by experience that passion says that there are strong
opinions and beliefs and that is certainly much better than indeference.
Toodles, Elena.

>Keep up the good work that you are doing.  Sincerely, Kamar Osage.

                        Elena Margarita Hernandez
                       EMHERNAN-AT-students.wisc.edu
                    (University of Wisconsin-Madison)

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